Editing Hotrodders.com engine forum thread quality

'''The quality of discussion in the [http://www.hotrodders.com/forum/engine Engine forum of the Hotrodders Bulletin Board] has come into question. Concerns include: ''' *Too many basic, repetitive, or inane questions. *A lack of media savvy and/or industry savvy. *A contentious and aggressive atmosphere. *An abundance of self-proclaimed "experts". '''Ideas for improving the Engine forum include:''' *Dividing the Engine forum up into various subforums. *[[#Qualifying users|Qualifying users]]. *More active moderation '''However, the opposing viewpoint indicates that:''' *The forum isn't really "broken", it's just the nature of the net. *Potential changes could invite elitism and snobbery, rather than cultivate kindness and respect. *We could chase away newcomers, rather than open the door for them. ==Summary== The quality of discussion in the [http://www.hotrodders.com/forum/engine Engine forum] on the [http://www.hotrodders.com/forum Hotrodders Bulletin Board] has been coming under question lately. This wiki article is intended to summarize the problem and examine possible solutions. Thanks to everyone who gave feedback on this issue, and will hopefully be encouraged to edit this wiki article. Thanks also to 4 Jaw Chuck for spearheading discussion on this issue, and donning the requisite thick skin to handle user input. ==Specific issues with engine forum discussions== *Too many basic/beginner/newbie questions. Ideally, the Engine forum is held at an intermediate-advanced level, and basic/beginner questions are moved into the [http://www.hotrodders.com/forum/hotrodding-basics Hotrodding Basics forum]. *Too many questions are repeated, when they could have been answered with a simple search of the Engine forum. *Some of the questions are inane, or overly bench-racerish, such as: "Will I beat my buddy's car?" *Pissing matches turn the focus away from learning, and towards trumpeting user conflicts. *The Engine forum is a victim of its own success. Increased posting volume has not resulted in comparable increased posting quality. *Self-proclaimed "experts" who aren't genuinely experienced and/or knowledgeable. *Less-savvy hotrodders who read the latest mags and evangelize the vendor-sponsored articles (AKA: "product leg humpers" or "catalog jockies"). ==Examples of potentially low-quality or too-basic threads== *"How much HP..." *My brand rules, your brand sucks." *"I haven't done a basic tuneup, but here's my problem..." *"My engine is making a funny noise, and I don't know where to start." *"Should my carb be 600 CFM, or 650 CFM?" *"Is brand A camshaft better than brand B?" *"Can someone desktop dyno this combo for me?" *"Do these heads make 'great' power?" *"Anyone ever heard of [insert commonly known company name here]?" *"My engine doesn't run right. What's the exact problem?" *"How fast will my car go with a 350?" ==Use of the phrasing "beginner" and "basic"== It might be best to move away from use of the word "beginner", as it's potentially more likely to be perceived as derogatory. "Basic" is the preferred term. If there are suggestions for other wording, please add them to this section. ==What can be adjusted now?== *This page: [http://www.hotrodders.com/help/board/forums.html Placing questions in the proper forum] can be adjusted for wording. Specifically, the use of "beginner" can be adjusted to "basic", and describing the Engine forum as suitable for "all" questions is no longer appropriate. *The description of the Engine forum on the [http://www.hotrodders.com/forum main forum page] can be altered to adjust the use of the word "all". ==Proposed solutions== ===Subforums=== Several different ideas for Engine and Basics subforums have been proposed, including: ===="Race" and "Street" subforums==== *Might reasonably separate the more professional discussion from the hobbyist discussion. *Potential ambiguity with cars that do double duty as daily drivers and weekend racers. *Also could do: "Street Stock", "Street Modified", and "Race Modified" forums. ===="Hot Rod Basics" and "Hot Rod Engine Basics" subforums==== *With this solution, the Engine forum could be changed to "Advanced Engine", or "Pro Engine Builders". ====Engine components subforums==== Break the main Engine forum down into intake, exhaust, fuel injection, emissions, etc. ====Engine brand subforums==== Break the Engine forum down into: Ford, Chevy, Chrysler, etc. Or further down, like: BB Chevy, SB Chevy, etc. ===="Backyard repairs" and "Professional repairs"==== These two types of posters may never agree on anything, so perhaps we should separate them from the start. ===="Common questions"==== A "common questions" subforum might be helpful, especially as it skirts the issue of segregating users into groups of "beginners" and "advanced hotrodders". ====General-building-troubleshooting-tuning==== Break the Engine forum down as follows: *General questions *Engine-building questions (parts selection, parts matching, clearance, etc.) *Troubleshooting *Tuning ===="General Engine" and "Technical Engine" subforums==== ====Various levels of beginner subforums==== We could have an ultra-basic forum, a medium-basic forum, and a standard "basic" forum. ====An "Advanced Engine" subforum==== Similar in concept to a "Basics" forum, but approaches the problem from the opposite direction. Posts in such a forum could even be subject to moderator approval before being made public. ===Qualifying users=== ====Questionnaire==== We could use a questionnaire to determine the knowledge level of posters. We could vote on the questions. More details [http://www.hotrodders.com/forum/new-rule-engine-forum-please-read-150533-2.html#post1060722 in this somewhat satirical post by MARTINSR]. ====Checklist==== Users could complete a checklist prior to starting a new thread. More details in [http://www.hotrodders.com/forum/engine-board-getting-out-hand-149172-2.html#post1050310 this post by Double_v23]. ===Forum-wide reorganization=== A more detailed organization of forums, as proposed by grouch [http://www.hotrodders.com/forum/organization-hotrodders-bulletin-board-113624.html in this thread]. ===More active moderation=== ====Encourage use of the search function==== Many questions can be solved by simply using the search function. We could more aggressively encourage its use (and the use of the [http://www.hotrodders.com/kb Knowledge Base] and [http://crankshaftcoalition.com/wiki Wiki], especially among newer users. We could use a nag screen for this, and require the user to check a box indicating that he/she has used the available resources prior to posting a question. Alternatively, this could be done with a button that takes the users title text, and searches the forum or Knowledge Base database for matching resources. *In response to the search function* Especially in regards to "bigger" forums, there is a tendancy for a thread to move off-track or take on large amounts of only semi-related information by other posters (or somethings completely unreleated information). This comes from alot of people discussing their similiar experiences, or someone who is misunderstanding the issue posting irrelevant info. This results in the search feature becoming tedious to use, even for people who are greatly familiar with the application of Boolean. Some search engines have the ability to seach for exact phrases when put in quotes, however even that trick seems to be widely unknown (for example, google has this feature - I'm amazed at how many people aren't aware of it). Unfortunately, the best way to correct it would be to strip out a great deal of the community bonding that goes on through the threads, by making sure that all initial posters and responses keep the information as specific as possible and limited solely to the scope of the question. Example: "Here is my problem, fact A, B, C, D. Please assist." "Try this specific steps in this order <steps/order given>. Post results." "Step 1 yieled x result." And so on. Obviously this would reduce the humanity of the board, as it were, but it should make the search function more reliable. The other suggestion would be for people to keep one question per thread. I know I have personally made the mistake of asking multiple questions in one thread, and how it would later cause confusion among those kind enough to assist. ====Lock posts that are repetitive==== Upon encountering a repetitive post, the mods could post a boilerplate "use the search function, please" response, and then lock the thread, ====Be more aggressive about moving posts into Hotrodding Basics==== Move more posts into Basics, more often. ==Argument against change to current policy== ===Do nothing, just be kind and helpful=== We don't need to change anything. The forum is free for all to use. Accept that some know more than others, and work to help people. Everyone should be kind to everyone else, and everything will be fine. ===This change is an invitation to elitism and snobbery=== *The newbie-ish aspect of the Hotrodding Basics forum discourages posting -- users are made to feel like lesser members of the hobby. *People come to the forums for human interaction. Otherwise, they would read a book about hotrodding. It's not a big deal to say to a newbie: "do a search". It's part of the learning/teaching process. Don't want to help a newbie? Just don't respond. *Ignore the silly posts, and they essentially go away. *Some websites' forums are specifically designated "For Professionals Only". Hotrodders.com is not. *Newbies need careful guidance, not harsh negativism. We could kill the incentive for new users to join us. Newbies should be encouraged, not put in a playpen. *Segregating basic posts into another forum invites politics. *Treating newbies well plants the seeds of helpfulness and community-oriented contributions. Helping a newbie today cultivates a helpful professional tomorrow. ===We could become TOO "advanced"=== *Policy change could go too far, inviting discussion on mega high-end builds. ===There's nothing wrong with the Engine forum now=== It's not really broke, so don't try to fix it. ==Miscellaneous== *We must cater to the advanced users, because their knowledge/experience is extremely valuable. However, we can't ignore the less knowledgeable users. By catering to the masses, we alienate those that add great value to the community. *This affects all Hotrodders.com forums, but the Engine forum is the only one that currently has the post volume to make the problem obvious. *Compliance is the problem, ignoring the infraction is not a solution. *Per human nature, the forum guidelines are rarely read anyway. *Rather than framing this as a rule/compliance issue, we can stress how useful the Hotrodding Basics forum can be. We can change the descriptive text, highlight it better, etc. *To move or not move into Hotrodding Basics is a judgement call. *The moderator workload has to be reasonable. *We should clearly enunciate a list of the types of questions that qualify as "Basic". *Maybe we should try aggressively moving threads into Hotrodding Basics for a month or so, and see how it turns out? *We could make sure that there are plenty of mods who moderate in both the Engine and Basics forums. *Sometimes an initially "Basic" threads turns advanced. *We need to be mindful of elitism, or, at least, the perception of elitism. One way to address this is if "advanced" users occasionally posted a genuine basic question in the Hotrodding Basics forum. *Having a Basic forum doesn't mean that we're shunning newbies, it means that we've allocated a special zone just to help them. *A humorous and relevant thread posting video is [http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/posting here]. *We must be wary of the effects of [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Groupthink groupthink]. ==References== *[http://www.hotrodders.com/help/board/forums.html Hotrodders Guidelines: Placing questions in the proper forum] *http://www.hotrodders.com/forum/new-rule-engine-forum-please-read-150533.html *http://www.hotrodders.com/forum/you-must-read-before-posting-engine-forum-150530.html *http://www.hotrodders.com/forum/engine-board-getting-out-hand-149172.html

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