Editing Cadillac engine knowledge

{{develop}} [[Image:Cadsuburban.jpg|frame|A Cadillac engine in an early Suburban]] ==Basic engine specifications== <br clear="both"> ===General specifications=== {| border="0" ! Year !! Disp. !! Fuel !! Horsepower !! Torque@RPM !! BorexStroke !! Comp. ratio |- | '68-69 || 472 || 4bbl || 375@4400 || 525@3000 || 4.300x4.060 || align="center" | 10.5-1 |- | '70 || 472 || 4bbl || 375@4400 || 525@3000 || 4.300x4.060 || align="center" | 10.0-1 |- | '70 || 500 || 4bbl || 400@4400 || 550@3000 || 4.300x4.304 || align="center" | 10.0-1 |- | '71 || 472 || 4bbl || 375@4400 || 525@3000 || 4.300x4.060 || align="center" | 8.8-1 |- | '71 || 500 || 4bbl || 365@4400 || 535@2800 || 4.300x4.304 || align="center" | 8.5-1 |- | '72-73 || 472 || 4bbl || 220@4000 || 365@2400 || 4.300x4.060 || align="center" | 8.5-1 |- | '72-73 || 500 || 4bbl || 235@3800 || 385@2400 || 4.300x4.304 || align="center" | 8.5-1 |- | '74 || 472 || 4bbl || 220@4000 || 365@2400 || 4.300x4.060 || align="center" | 8.25-1 |- | '74-75 || 500 || 4bbl || 210@3600 || 380@2000 || 4.300x4.304 || align="center" | 8.25-1 |- | '75 || 500 || EFI || 210@3600 || 380@2000 || 4.300x4.304 || align="center" | 8.25-1 |- | '76 || 500 || 4bbl || 190@3600 || 360@2000 || 4.300x4.304 || align="center" | 8.5-1 |- | '76 || 500 || EFI || 215@3600 || 400@2000 || 4.300x4.304 || align="center" | 8.5-1 |} ===Tune-up specifications=== {| border="0" ! Year !! Disp. !! Fuel !! Spark plugs !! Dist. !! Timing BTDC !! Intake opens !! Idle speed |- | '68-69 || 472 || 4bbl || 44Ngap@.035 || points@.016 || align="center" | 5B || align="center" | 18B || align="center" | 550 |- | '70-71 || 472 || 4bbl || R46Ngap@.035 || points@.016 || align="center" | 8B || align="center" | 18B || align="center" | 600 |- | '70-71 || 500 || 4bbl || R46Ngap@.035 || points@.016 || align="center" | 7.5B || align="center" | 18B || align="center" | 600 |- | '72-73 || 472 || 4bbl || R46Ngap@.035 || points@.016 || align="center" | 8B || align="center" | 34B || align="center" | 600 |- | '72-73 || 500 || 4bbl || R46Ngap@.035 || points@.016 || align="center" | 8B || align="center" | 34B || align="center" | 600 |- | '74 || 472 || 4bbl || R45NSgap@.035 || points@.016 || align="center" | 10B || align="center" | 21B || align="center" | 600 |- | '74 || 500 || 4bbl || R45NSgap@.035 || points@.016 || align="center" | 10B || align="center" | 21B || align="center" | 600 |- | '74 || 500 || 4bbl || R45NSgap@.035 || align="center" | HEI || align="center" | 10B || align="center" | 21B || align="center" | 600 |- | '75-76 || 500 || 4bbl || R45NSXgap@.060 || align="center" | HEI || align="center" | 6B || align="center" | 21B || align="center" | 600 |- | '75-76 || 500 || EFI || R45NSXgap@.060 || align="center" | HEI || align="center" | 12B || align="center" | 21B || align="center" | 600 |} ===Fastener torque specifications=== {| border="0" ! Year !! Disp. !! Head !! Rod !! Main !! Crank damper !! Flywheel !! Intake !! Exhaust |- | '68-76 || 472-500 || align="center" | 115 || align="center" | 40 || align="center" | 90 || align="center" | press fit || align="center" | 60 || align="center" | 30 || align="center" | 35 |} ==Identification== '68-'69 472: 1486238 '70-'76 472 & 500: 1485200 [1486200 was used on some 74-76 500 engines] '77-'79 425: 1609110 '80-'85 368: 1615255 Carb 1620734 EFI ===Crank casting number=== '68-'74 472: 1486424 '70 500: 1495094 '71-'76 500: 1496793 '77-'79 425: 1609142R '80-'85 368: 1609142 ===Stroke=== (Stroke can be measured through spark plug hole if it will turn.) '68-'74 472, 77-'79 425, '80-'85 368: 4.060" (less than 4 1/8") '70-'76 500: 4.300" (more than 4 1/4") ===Head casting number=== (Usually in the center of the head under the valve cover.) '68-'69 472: 1486250 '70 472 & 500: 1495950, 1497902, 1486250 '71-'73 472 & 500: 1497902 '74-'76 472 & 500: 6024493, 6024552 472 and 500 heads have the last 3 digits of the # in a recess under a center intake port, visible from the lifter valley with a mirror. '77-'79 425: 1609112, 1609423 (last 3 usually on driver's front / pass. rear exhaust port) '80-'85 368: 1615188, others unknown. The 4-6-8 head is substantially different than the regular head, and the rocker assemblies are not directly interchangeable. A fairly comprehensive 2 page PDF ID guide with pictures can be found here (mostly about the 472/500 stuff): http://www.cad500parts.com/tech/EngineIDPages.pdf. For Quick ID - on the second page, there is a box shape shown on the rear of the '77-later blocks to ID the smaller engines. Distinguishing a '70-newer 472 from a 500 can only be done by crank number, stroke, or piston design, as all other parts are the same. ==Modifications and swapping== The biggest gains in power output come with cylinder head work. Pre-'74 heads are small chamber 76 cc's and are good for around 12-13 to 1 compression when a flat top piston is fitted. Race gas, alcohol or propane fuel must be used. The '74 and later open chamber heads have 120 cc chambers giving compression ratios of 7.5-9 to 1 depending on the piston used. The '77-'79 425 heads have 108cc chambers giving about 10:1 compression ratio depending on the piston used. The 425 heads have restricted air flow due to their port design making them the least desirable for modification. The head gasket is different as well. Big gains can be made by adding larger valves. The valve sizes can be boosted to 2.19"/1.84" without worry of hitting the water jackets. The usual porting, valve un-shrouding and minor bowl modifications will work, although the short-side radius should be left alone to avoid drastic differences in airflow. Roughly 20 horses can be gained by this work alone and most of that comes from the larger valves. Blocks should get the standard de-burring. A drain hole can be drilled into the rear of the lifter valley for better oil drain back and a spillway can be added to the oval hole at the front of the block to better lubricate the timing chain and the camshaft thrust face. Incidentally, a later block has 1/2 inch oil galleries for increased flow through the block, so it makes a good performance base. If the front cover has [[rust]] pitting from the water pump, it can be saved by [[sandblasting]] and filling the [[Pitted rust|pits]] with JB Weld and then painting. One more thing about blocks, a 472 can be made into a 500 by swapping in the 500 crank and pistons, although on '68-69 engines, a slight amount of notching is necessary at the bottom of the cylinder bores. ===High performance tolerances=== Crank end-play- minimum .008 Rod side clearance- .035 Top ring- .020 Second ring- .018 ===Cam degreeing=== Cam degreeing benefits from advancing the cam timing 2 degrees, as these engines had a retarded cam in stock form for emissions. Attach the degree wheel to the crank with a 9/16 fine thread bolt. ===Transmissions=== The basic 472 and the later 500 engines both use a standardized Buick/Pontiac/Olds/Cadillac bell housing pattern, so a Turbo 400 automatic will bolt right up to the back of the block as long as the proper Cadillac flexplate and torque converter are used. The Turbo 425 front-drive automatic transaxle also fits these engines as used in the Eldorado, although a special dual-sump oil pan and pickup are used with these transmissions due to the required half shaft clearance. Any rear-wheel drive engine can be converted to front-drive and vice versa if the proper oil pan and pickup are used, although 2 of the main cap bolts must be removed and swapped to mount the pickup's bracket. Another good thing about these engines using a Turbo 400 transmission is that a B/P/O/C patterned case can be stuffed with the Chevy 4x4 tailshaft and associated hardware for use in an off-road truck. The engine weight is approximately 600 pounds fully dressed and splits the difference between small and big block Chevy, so suspension modifications are not usually necessary. Transfer case choice for a 4x4 should be a 205, as fitted to some mid/late '70's Chevy 1 ton trucks. The 205 is a strong gear-driven transfer case and holds up nicely to the big Caddy's torque output. some turbo 350s came with steel transmissions in older military tanks and trucks. ive seen them. they would be best for mondo horsepower applications such as 1500+ hp cad engines. its fairly easy yo build a 2000 hp twin turbo cad with 35 pounds of boost at 7 to 1 compression on alcohol. they say the block can take it. but im not sure the cast crank can the turbo 4l80e is the best transmission to use on the cadillac 472 and 500 due to the fact that u can run 4.11 gears and not over rev the engine. with a 2000 dollar cpu controller, its not for poor guys, The cad 500 mad my 87 vette really move. i bored and stroked it to 608 cid. with a 4.440 bore and a 4.600 stroke with a .300 offset bore. my book on racing engines is almost finished. i cover cadillac engines and bbc in it. its over 250 pages long. bloodviking pmd40@live.com ===Engine mounting=== When bolting these engines into most any application, use the stock-type Cadillac Eldorado engine mounts, oil pan and associated pickup tube. Fabricate a set of 3/8 inch thick plates to be bolted between the crossmember. The big Cad has the mount bolts 3-1/2 inches ahead of where the Chevy mounts are when measuring from the stock Chevy engine to transmission bellhousing mating surface. For a 4x4 truck, the engine usually fits well with crossmember and frame rail notches to clear the oil pump. If the truck originally ran a Turbo 350 transmission, the crossmember goes back about 3 inches and custom drive shafts will need to be made up to fit. These should run the large 1 ton U-joints for longest life. ===Oil pumps=== There are different oil pumps for the big Cadillac engines. One faces forward from the block at a 45 degree angle downward. The next faces downward 45 degrees and points right toward the bottom of the crankshaft pulley. There is another that I have not seen that has been described as pointing more outward than the first one I described. These can all be interchanged, but make very sure to properly clean the oilpump and block mating surfaces and always use a new oil pump gasket. The correct gaskets will be from major gasket manufacturers, and should be only something like 0.005" thick if I remember correctly. An oil pump gasket that is too thick will cause more oil to bypass the pump gears and allow more end play of those gears too, something you do not want. '''===Oil Pans===''' Rear wheel drive pans used a front sump pan and pickup. The Eldorado used a rear sump setup. Later 425's and 368's used a mid-sump style. The latter two pans are what you would typically use for most engine swaps. ------------------------------------- one nice thing about the cad pumps is that u can use a q-jet jet to shim the stock pump spring to boost oil pressure. 10-12 psi per 1000 rpm is good. make sure after u do this u run an electric drill onto the oil pump shaft to prime the engine. try and use the front sump oil pan design to eliminate the longer pickup. this will help keep the engine primed as well as a thick motor oil. if only a new pump design would be made for these engines. but as always the suffering to build a cad right goes on............. bloodviking pmd40@live.com ===Clearance issues=== In cars, the clearance problems are usually at the front crossmember, the exhaust manifold at the driver's side and possibly the airbox on the firewall. This can be dimpled with fiberglass or sheetmetal if necessary. Streetrods usually have sufficient room to drop the big Cad in. The fit is tight like with a big block Chevy, but the only change required will be in motor mount placement. Most all vehicles requiring a rear-sump oil pan and pickup can use the Eldorado pan and pickup tube, or a mid-sump pan and pickup as found on the smaller 368-425 Cadillac engines of '77-'79 vintage. Stock exhaust manifolds may be used, or aftermarket block-hugger style headers can be sourced from Sanderson. In most cases where a big block Chevy header can be used, the Chevy flanges can be removed and Cad flanges can be made up quite easily. The primary tubes may need a bit of tweaking to line up with the ports with this method. Remember that the front and rear drive exhaust manifolds are different for the driver's side. This may help in routing the exhaust if it looks like a tight fit on that side. ---------------------------- i have found that the cad engines do not fit easily in many gm chassis. never fit the engine in without putting the exaust manifol on first. i tried that and couldnt get to the bold without bloody knuckles in a cad 500 in an 80 camaro swap. better yet use a custom set of tight tuck headers. as usualy cad parts are insanely expensive but worth it in this case. bloodviking ===Intake manifold=== Stock carbureted intake manifolds benefit from a 1 inch spacer under the carburetor, adding around 15 horses. Because of the bathtub-type steel intake gasket, plate stock and exhaust tubing can be fabricated into a tunnel-ram style dual carb manifold. I built one of these to use the Quadrajets from 4.1 liter Buick V-6 engines, as two of these with straight linkage feed the big motor quite well. The bathtub gasket can be reused by using a bit of Permatex to seal the block and head surfaces by encircling the ports to prevent an internal vacuum leak on both sides of the gasket. ===EFI=== The factory EFI system used from '75-'76 on 500 cubic inch engines is a ported injection system which operates similarly to the familiar Chevy tuned port injection. It appears like a large throttle body on an intake with separate fuel injectors. Each cylinder has its own injector mounted in the intake runner near the intake gasket area with a common fuel rail feeding all 8. This system was also used through 1979 on Sevilles as standard equipment and as an option on full size cars. It consists of four main systems; the ECU, the fuel delivery system, the air distribution system, and the sensors which supply information to the ECU. The ECU is a pre-programmed computer that analyzes the sensor information and computes the exact fuel requirements based on that information. It supplies the proper amount of fuel by opening the injectors for a specific amount of time, which varies as the engine operating conditions change. The fuel system consists of 2 fuel pumps (1 in tank, 1 on chassis), the fuel filter, the fuel presure regulator, the fuel rails and lines, and the injectors. The fuel system runs with a pressure reading of 39 to 55-95 PSI. A relief valve protects the system from excessive fuel pressure. The fuel regulator maintains the pressure in the fuel rails at 39 PSI for proper injector operation. The injectors are divided into 2 main groups, one for cylinders 1, 2, 7, and 8 and the other group for injectors 3, 4, 5, and 6. All four injectors in each group open simultaneously, with the 2 groups alternating in operation. The air distribution system consists of the throttle body assembly and the intake manifold. The throttle body houses the fast idle valve and the idle bypass air passage. The fast idle valve allows extra air to bypass the throttle blades when the engine is cold and closes as it warms up. The warm idle is adjusted at the idle bypass air passage. The sensors are as follows...MAP(intake pressure), TPS(throttle position), MAT(air temp), CTS(coolant temp), and RPM (engine speed measured at distributor). The MAP sensor is housed in the ECU and a plastic vacuum line connects it to the throttle body. The TPS sensor is mounted on the throttle body and is controlled by throttle blade movement. The MAT and CTS sensors are completely interchangeable. The MAT is located on the intake manifold and the CTS is located on the passenger cylinder head water outlet. The RPM sensor is on the distributor shaft under the cap assembly and sends engine speed and fuel triggering information to the ECU. This system runs in open loop configuration without an oxygen sensor and is quite easy to transplant into any vehicle, as long as all the components are used. The ECU has a separate computer/engine wiring harness that is easily swapped from donor vehicle to the new vehicle with only 4 wires and one vacuum line needing to be hooked up to work properly. All of the servicing information can be found in Chilton's #8587 manual, which deals exclusively with Cadillacs from 1967 to 1989. ------------------------------------------------------------- The stock efi is not good for performance applications. it does not keep up with aftermarket cams. you need to change the fuel injectors for high flow ones and use a more modern fuel pump with a return line. the stock units will only handle approximately 300 hp max. there also hard to find replacement parts for. and there were more cars made with the 800 cfm q-jet then the fuel injection units. and whats worse is the fuel onjection didnt make much more hp then the carb version of the engine due to weak fuel injectors. bloodviking ===Distributors=== Point-type distributors are similar to the familiar Chevy and use the same internal parts, however the internal shaft and the housing are Cadillac only. Ignition parts for the HEI-style distributors are also the same as the Chevy engine uses, with a few exceptions. First, like the points distributor, the shaft and housing are Cadillac only. Also, the distributor will differ between carbureted and fuel injected engines. The fuel injected distributor has a position sensor under the main body that tells the computer the engine speed and when to trigger the proper injectors. If you're not sure what distributor you have, the carbureted version looks the same as the Chevy, and the fuel injected has a square portion with a round 3 pin plug directly above the clamp area. Finally, the hold-down clamp used will depend on the distributor. They don't interchange, so get the clamp when you get the distributor. Best choice for ignition wires would be a cut-to-fit set, as even the stockers do not fit quite the way they should due to the front-mounted distributor location. ---------------------------------------------------- so many people have complained about the cadillac hei distributers having too much advance that i have gone to the chevy distributer and cut it down to fit the cadillac engines. i had so many problems with mine as well from a 76 cadillac 500. it was so hard to time. i suffered greatly until i replaced the unit. many cars especially camaros will not allow the hood to close. or even close with the hei distributor in place. or just use the older points distributor. you can cut the stock hei unit down about 2 inches and have it clear everything if u know how to measure and cut correctly. it wasnt too hard and i did it with sucess. always reshape the end of the distributor shaft to fit into the oil pump shaft. never cut and weld a shaft together as it will warp it. bloodviking ==Cadillac engine parts sources== [http://www.cad500parts.com/ Cad Company] [http://www.500cid.com/ Maximum Torque Specialties] [http://www.cadillacperformanceparts.com/ Cadillac Performance Parts] [[Category:Engine]] [[Category:Identification and decoding]] who is bloodviking on the net? Bloodviking has worked on cad 500s and other engines for 25 years as a street racer building 2000 plus hp engines. any engine questions can go to pmd40@live.com

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