Pontiac V8 engine

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m (Pistons)
 
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[[File:Pont twin turbo eng.jpg|right]]
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[[File:Pont twin turbo eng.jpg|right]]<br style="clear:both"/>
==Overview==
+
A look at one of the more popular GM engines.
+
  
{{warning}}Be sure to verify Pontiac info found in print, by word of mouth or on the internet... and even here. There is a lot of erroneous and misleading info being circulated, even from so-called experts, pros and gurus.  
+
----
 +
 
 +
{{warning|Be sure to verify '''all''' Pontiac info found on the internet, in print, or by word of mouth. There is a lot of erroneous and misleading info out there- even from so-called experts, pros and gurus. '''Remember''': ''Trust but verify!''}}
 +
 
 +
----
 +
==Overview==
 +
The Pontiac engine has long been recognized as being a good engine for making a lot of torque at a relatively low RPM. Recent advances in aftermarket parts in general and cylinder heads in particular have given new life to this venerable platform. While turning your Pontiac 400 into a fire-breathing BBC eating machine can be accomplished given enough dedication and money, the Pontiac engine remains a viable ''economical'' option for building a lot of torque using basically stock castings, including blocks, heads and cranks.
  
'''Remember''': ''Trust but verify!''
+
As for the current (ca. 2000-up) aftermarket support given to the Pontiac engine, suffice to say that a Pontiac engine- much like a BB or SB Chevy- can be assembled using basically NO factory production parts whatsoever. Never before has the Pontiac engine enjoyed such aftermarket support, and it can truly be said that the golden years for building a Pontiac is... NOW!
  
 
==Pontiac engine history==
 
==Pontiac engine history==
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<td style="width: 81px">'''1969'''</td>
 
<td style="width: 81px">'''1969'''</td>
 
<td style="width: 48px">303'''**'''</td>
 
<td style="width: 48px">303'''**'''</td>
<td style="width: 54px">4.125</td>
+
<td style="width: 54px">4.120</td>
 
<td style="width: 60px">2.84</td>
 
<td style="width: 60px">2.84</td>
<td style="width: 49px">3.00</td>
+
<td style="width: 49px">2.50</td>
 
<td style="width: 53px">2.25</td></tr>
 
<td style="width: 53px">2.25</td></tr>
 
<tr bgcolor="#F1F1F1">
 
<tr bgcolor="#F1F1F1">
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<td style="width: 60px">3.00</td>
 
<td style="width: 60px">3.00</td>
 
<td style="width: 49px">3.00</td>
 
<td style="width: 49px">3.00</td>
<td style="width: 53px">2.25</td></tr>
+
<td style="width: 53px">2.00</td></tr>
 
<tr>
 
<tr>
 
<td style="width: 81px">'''1980-'81'''</td>
 
<td style="width: 81px">'''1980-'81'''</td>
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<td style="width: 60px">3.00</td>
 
<td style="width: 60px">3.00</td>
 
<td style="width: 49px">3.00</td>
 
<td style="width: 49px">3.00</td>
<td style="width: 53px">2.25</td></tr>
+
<td style="width: 53px">2.00</td></tr>
 
</table>
 
</table>
 
'''NOTES:'''<br>
 
'''NOTES:'''<br>
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'''***'''The 350 engine actually displaced 354 ci.
 
'''***'''The 350 engine actually displaced 354 ci.
 
<br>
 
<br>
 +
 
==Pontiac engines by displacement==
 
==Pontiac engines by displacement==
 
<table class="style119" style="width: 620px" border="2" cellpadding="2" cellspacing="0">
 
<table class="style119" style="width: 620px" border="2" cellpadding="2" cellspacing="0">
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<td style="width: 60px">3.00</td>
 
<td style="width: 60px">3.00</td>
 
<td style="width: 46px">3.00</td>
 
<td style="width: 46px">3.00</td>
<td style="width: 26px">2.25</td></tr>
+
<td style="width: 26px">2.00</td></tr>
 
<tr bgcolor="#F1F1F1">
 
<tr bgcolor="#F1F1F1">
 
<td style="width: 38px">'''287'''</td>
 
<td style="width: 38px">'''287'''</td>
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<td style="width: 60px">3.00</td>
 
<td style="width: 60px">3.00</td>
 
<td style="width: 46px">3.00</td>
 
<td style="width: 46px">3.00</td>
<td style="width: 26px">2.25</td></tr>
+
<td style="width: 26px">2.00</td></tr>
 
<tr bgcolor="#F1F1F1">
 
<tr bgcolor="#F1F1F1">
 
<td style="width: 38px">'''303**'''</td>
 
<td style="width: 38px">'''303**'''</td>
 
<td style="width: 62px">1969</td>
 
<td style="width: 62px">1969</td>
<td>4.125</td>
+
<td>4.120</td>
 
<td style="width: 60px">2.84</td>
 
<td style="width: 60px">2.84</td>
<td style="width: 46px">3.00</td>
+
<td style="width: 46px">2.50</td>
 
<td style="width: 26px">2.25</td></tr>
 
<td style="width: 26px">2.25</td></tr>
 
<tr>
 
<tr>
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==Engine ID==
 
==Engine ID==
 +
*[http://www.teufert.net/identify/identify.htm  Identify the year and size of your Pontiac engine]
 
*[http://www.pontiacpower.net/castnum01.html Transfer lug, VIN, casting number, block, and date code locations]
 
*[http://www.pontiacpower.net/castnum01.html Transfer lug, VIN, casting number, block, and date code locations]
 
*[http://www.pontiacpower.net/engcode01.html Engine codes]
 
*[http://www.pontiacpower.net/engcode01.html Engine codes]
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     <td >3.00</td>
 
     <td >3.00</td>
 
     <td >3.00</td>
 
     <td >3.00</td>
     <td >2.25</td></tr>
+
     <td >2.00</td></tr>
 
   <tr bgcolor="#F1F1F1" align="center" valign="bottom">
 
   <tr bgcolor="#F1F1F1" align="center" valign="bottom">
 
     <td>'''287'''</td>
 
     <td>'''287'''</td>
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     <td >3.00</td>
 
     <td >3.00</td>
 
     <td >3.00</td>
 
     <td >3.00</td>
     <td >2.25</td></tr>
+
     <td >2.00</td></tr>
 
   <tr bgcolor="#F1F1F1" align="center" valign="bottom">
 
   <tr bgcolor="#F1F1F1" align="center" valign="bottom">
 
     <td>'''303**'''</td>
 
     <td>'''303**'''</td>
     <td >4.125</td>
+
     <td >4.120</td>
 
     <td >2.840</td>
 
     <td >2.840</td>
     <td >3.00</td>
+
     <td >2.50</td>
 
     <td >2.25</td></tr>
 
     <td >2.25</td></tr>
 
   <tr align="center" valign="bottom">
 
   <tr align="center" valign="bottom">
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</tr>
 
</tr>
 
<tr bgcolor="#F1F1F1">
 
<tr bgcolor="#F1F1F1">
<td align="center">6H </td><td align="center">46</td><td align="center">96.17</td><td align="center">1.96/1.66</td><td align="center">4.86</td><td align="center">350</td>
+
<td align="center">'''6H''' </td><td align="center">46</td><td align="center">96.17</td><td align="center">1.96/1.66</td><td align="center">4.86</td><td align="center">350</td>
 
</tr>
 
</tr>
 
<tr>
 
<tr>
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</tr>  
 
</tr>  
 
<tr>
 
<tr>
<th rowspan="6" bgcolor="#FFF8DC">1975-'76</th>
+
<th rowspan="6" >1975-'76</th>
 
<td align="center"> 4</td><td align="center">6X</td><td align="center">93.74</td><td align="center">2.11/1.66</td><td align="center">4.86</td><td align="center">350</td>
 
<td align="center"> 4</td><td align="center">6X</td><td align="center">93.74</td><td align="center">2.11/1.66</td><td align="center">4.86</td><td align="center">350</td>
 
</tr>
 
</tr>
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</tr>
 
</tr>
 
<tr>
 
<tr>
<th rowspan="2" bgcolor="#FFF8DC">1977</th>
+
<th rowspan="2">1977</th>
 
<td align="center"> 4</td><td align="center">6X</td><td align="center">93.74</td><td align="center">2.11/1.66</td><td align="center">4.86</td><td align="center">350 / 400 W72</td>
 
<td align="center"> 4</td><td align="center">6X</td><td align="center">93.74</td><td align="center">2.11/1.66</td><td align="center">4.86</td><td align="center">350 / 400 W72</td>
 
</tr>
 
</tr>
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</tr>
 
</tr>
 
<tr>
 
<tr>
<th bgcolor="#FFF8DC">1978</th>
+
<th >1978</th>
 
<td align="center"> 8</td><td align="center">6X</td><td align="center">100.04</td><td align="center">2.11/1.66</td><td align="center">4.86</td><td align="center">400</td>
 
<td align="center"> 8</td><td align="center">6X</td><td align="center">100.04</td><td align="center">2.11/1.66</td><td align="center">4.86</td><td align="center">400</td>
 
</tr>
 
</tr>
<tr bgcolor="#F1F1F1">
+
 
<th rowspan="2" bgcolor="#FFF8DC">1978-'79</th>
+
<th rowspan="2">1978-'79</th><tr bgcolor="#F1F1F1">
 
<td align="center"> 4</td><td align="center">6X</td><td align="center">93.74</td><td align="center">2.11/1.66</td><td align="center">4.86</td><td align="center">400 W72</td>
 
<td align="center"> 4</td><td align="center">6X</td><td align="center">93.74</td><td align="center">2.11/1.66</td><td align="center">4.86</td><td align="center">400 W72</td>
 
</tr></table><br>
 
</tr></table><br>
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====The bottleneck stud====
 
====The bottleneck stud====
[[File:Pont stk stud.jpg|thumb|500px|Stock type Pontiac bottleneck stud]]Pontiac heads like the 6X and practically all other production Pontiac heads likely to be used in a performance-orientated build originally had screw in ''bottleneck'' studs and steel guideplates. There are some exceptions to this, like the Ram Air IV and "Ram Air II" round port heads, which used a straight 7/16" stud with an adjuster nut/lock nut.  
+
[[File:Pont stk stud.jpg|thumb|500px|Stock type Pontiac bottleneck stud]]Pontiac heads like the 6X and practically all other production Pontiac heads likely to be used in a performance-orientated build originally had screw in ''bottleneck'' studs and steel guideplates. There are some exceptions to this, like heads having pressed in bottleneck studs, and the Ram Air IV and "Ram Air II" round port heads, which used a straight 7/16" stud with an adjuster nut/lock nut arrangement.  
  
 
The usual stock D-port arrangement is a "net lash" set-up. Because the rocker stud is 7/16" OD at the bottom, the rocker arm and pivot ball is also made to fit a 7/16" OD stud, so the stock rocker arm and ball can be reused with a straight 7/16" stud. The '''top''' of the bottleneck stud is threaded for a 3/8-24 nut, to be torqued to 15 ft/lb to retain the rocker arm.   
 
The usual stock D-port arrangement is a "net lash" set-up. Because the rocker stud is 7/16" OD at the bottom, the rocker arm and pivot ball is also made to fit a 7/16" OD stud, so the stock rocker arm and ball can be reused with a straight 7/16" stud. The '''top''' of the bottleneck stud is threaded for a 3/8-24 nut, to be torqued to 15 ft/lb to retain the rocker arm.   
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*Valve stem length
 
*Valve stem length
 
*Head gasket thickness
 
*Head gasket thickness
So if any of the above changes are made, the stock Pontiac bottleneck stud/net lash set-up may no longer preload the lifter properly. Unless the studs are changed to allow for an adjustable valve train, different length push rods may be needed to set the lifter preload. For that reason it is always advisable to use straight studs to replace the bottleneck studs. A good replacement is ARP '''p/n 190-4003''' w/hex nuts, or p/n '''190-4203''' w/12-point nuts. Be aware that there can be clearance issues between the polyloc and valve cover if polylocs are used. Check the clearances carefully; you might be able to use a shorter polyloc. If possible (and the valve cover are so equipped) keep the oil drippers. The oil drippers are a separate piece from the valve covers on the RA II/IV engines.
+
So if any of the above changes are made, the stock Pontiac bottleneck stud/net lash set-up may no longer preload the lifter properly. Unless the studs are changed to allow for an adjustable valve train, different length push rods may be needed to set the lifter preload- but changing the length of the push rod can adversely affect the '''[[valve train geometry]]'''. For that reason it is advisable to use straight studs to replace the bottleneck studs. A good replacement is ARP '''p/n 190-4003''' w/hex nuts, or p/n '''190-4203''' w/12-point nuts. Be aware that there can be clearance issues between the polyloc and valve cover if polylocs are used. Check the clearances carefully; you might be able to use a shorter polyloc. If possible (and the valve cover are so equipped) keep the oil drippers. The oil drippers are a separate piece from the valve covers on the RA II/IV engines.
  
 
While it is not recommended, the bottleneck studs will sometimes work as an adjustable valve train if a stock SBC lock nut is used and the camshaft is very mild. But this does nothing for the inherently weaker design of the bottleneck stud.
 
While it is not recommended, the bottleneck studs will sometimes work as an adjustable valve train if a stock SBC lock nut is used and the camshaft is very mild. But this does nothing for the inherently weaker design of the bottleneck stud.
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A dual pattern cam like Comp Cams' XE series or a Lunati Voodoo would be good cams to look into. For info on Comp Cams XE series of cams you can contact Butler Performance for good solid info. For info on Crower cams contact Kauffman Racing Engines or Spotts Performance. These shops can be contacted via phone or email.
 
A dual pattern cam like Comp Cams' XE series or a Lunati Voodoo would be good cams to look into. For info on Comp Cams XE series of cams you can contact Butler Performance for good solid info. For info on Crower cams contact Kauffman Racing Engines or Spotts Performance. These shops can be contacted via phone or email.
 +
 +
List of camshafts: http://www.pontiacpower.org/PontiacCams.htm
 +
 
;[[Pontiac V8 engine #Parts interchangeability|Return to Parts interchangeability]]
 
;[[Pontiac V8 engine #Parts interchangeability|Return to Parts interchangeability]]
  
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[[File:PONT HEAT X-OVER BLOCK-OFF 005.jpg|thumb|300px|left|Heat riser block off schematic]] <br style="clear:both"/>
 
[[File:PONT HEAT X-OVER BLOCK-OFF 005.jpg|thumb|300px|left|Heat riser block off schematic]] <br style="clear:both"/>
[[Pontiac V8 engine #Parts interchangeability|Return to Parts interchangeability]]
+
 
 +
<table border="2" cellpadding="2" cellspacing="0">
 +
<tr><th colspan="3"><font color="black" size="4">Exhaust Crossover Port Match Ups</font></th>
 +
</tr><tr><td><font color="black">'''HEAD'''</font></td><td><font color="black">'''MANIFOLD'''</font></td><td><font color="black">'''USE INT. GASKET'''</font></td></tr>
 +
<tr><td><font color="black">1965-'71</font></td><td>1965-'71</td><td>1965-'71</td></tr>
 +
<tr><td><font color="black">1965-'71</font></td><td>1972-'79</td><td>1972-'79</td></tr>
 +
<tr><td><font color="black">1972-'79</font></td><td>1972-'79</td><td>1972-'79</td></tr>
 +
<tr><td><font color="black">1972-'79</font></td><td>1965-'71</td><td>1965-'71'''**'''</td></tr>
 +
</table>
 +
 
 +
'''**''' Use stainless steel sheet block-off plate
 +
<br>
 
;[[Pontiac V8 engine #Parts interchangeability|Return to Parts interchangeability]]
 
;[[Pontiac V8 engine #Parts interchangeability|Return to Parts interchangeability]]
  
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Generally, using flat top pistons are the best way to go. There may be cases where a dished piston is needed, but the cost is generally higher than cast flat tops.  
 
Generally, using flat top pistons are the best way to go. There may be cases where a dished piston is needed, but the cost is generally higher than cast flat tops.  
  
Because the 1967 and newer valves don't line up correctly with the 1966-back piston valve reliefs in the pistons (and obviously vice-versa), the correct piston has to be used if any sort of aftermarket high lift cam is used, or else there may be destructive valve to piston interference. There are 8-valve relief pistons available to fit all the valve angle differences used through the years on Pontiac engines. While these pistons will get the job done, from a high performance standpoint they are not desirable.
+
In 1967 the 400 4bbl engines went to new valve angle and placement and all Pontiac V-8's 1968 and newer. Newer valves don't line up correctly with the 67 2bbl, any 326 or all 1966-back piston valve reliefs (and obviously vice-versa), the correct piston has to be used if any sort of aftermarket high lift cam is used, or else there may be destructive valve to piston interference. There are 8-valve relief pistons available to fit all the valve angle differences used through the years on Pontiac 400 engines. While these pistons will get the job done, from a high performance standpoint they are not desirable partially due to the lower compression.
  
 
Pontiac went to an advertised 7.6:1 compression in about 1975, due in part to the design of the top of the pistons. Pontiac pistons from the low compression years have a 45 degree machined outer edge of the piston top.  
 
Pontiac went to an advertised 7.6:1 compression in about 1975, due in part to the design of the top of the pistons. Pontiac pistons from the low compression years have a 45 degree machined outer edge of the piston top.  
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The factory cranks are good. But if a crank is needed, it would be worth looking at a stroker to make a 400 into a small journal 455. Smaller main journals of the 400 make it a better foundation for building a high performance 455 than an OEM 455 block.
 
The factory cranks are good. But if a crank is needed, it would be worth looking at a stroker to make a 400 into a small journal 455. Smaller main journals of the 400 make it a better foundation for building a high performance 455 than an OEM 455 block.
  
Detailed info on crankshafts can be seen [http://www.angelfire.com/fl4/pontiacdude428/pontiaccrankpn.html '''here'''], from Ken's Speed & Machine.  
+
This info on crankshafts is from the www.pontiacpower.org site.  
  
 
{{Note1}}Starting around 1966-'67, not all cranks were machined for a pilot bearing, so be sure to check to see if the crank needs machining before installing the crank if a manual transmission is to be used.  
 
{{Note1}}Starting around 1966-'67, not all cranks were machined for a pilot bearing, so be sure to check to see if the crank needs machining before installing the crank if a manual transmission is to be used.  
  
 
{{Note1}} Pre-'64 cranks are not machined for TH-type torque converter hubs. They can be machined to fit, though.
 
{{Note1}} Pre-'64 cranks are not machined for TH-type torque converter hubs. They can be machined to fit, though.
 +
{{Note2}} 1963 389 crank pilot will not interchange with any other year. It is a smaller size than the rest of the 59-64 389 engines.
 
;[[Pontiac V8 engine #Parts interchangeability|Return to Parts interchangeability]]
 
;[[Pontiac V8 engine #Parts interchangeability|Return to Parts interchangeability]]
  
 +
===Pontiac crank numbers===
 +
<pre>
 +
Year        Engine        Material    Crank#          Notes
 +
1939-1954    all 6cyl                  506176     
 +
1946-1949    all 8cyl                  508454     
 +
1950-1954    all 8cyl                  512512     
 +
1955          287        FS          518047 
 +
1956          317        FS          521602 
 +
1957          347        FS          530048 
 +
1958          370        FS          528527 
 +
1959-1962      389        AS          531369      except Super Duty
 +
1959-1960      389        SD,FS        533038      Limited production
 +
1961-1962      389        SD,FS        541649      Limited production
 +
1961-1963      421        SD,FS        542990      Limited production (approx 2000)
 +
1961-1962      215                      542239      Tempest
 +
1961-1963      4cyl                    1193645    Tempest
 +
1962-1963      421        AS          9770488    And HO engines
 +
1963          326        AS          545585      Special Tempest transaxle hub
 +
1963          389        AS          544191      Pontiac V8 except 421
 +
1964-1965      6 cyl                    3864465    Tempest; supplied w/o pilot brng
 +
1964-1965      V8          AS          9773382    Tempest inc. 389 Armasteel "400"
 +
1964-1965      389        AS          9773383     
 +
1964-1965      421                      977384      And HO; might require different
 +
connecting rod for balance
 +
 +
1966          421        AS          9773384    1st Type: if using 1965 type
 +
piston, different connecting rods are required
 +
 +
1966-1967      326        AS          9782770 
 +
1966          389        N            9783786 
 +
late 1966      421        AS          9783787 
 +
1966-1967      6 cyl                    9782279    Firebird and Tempest; use pilot
 +
bearing P/N 3752487 for MT
 +
 +
1966-1968      421-428    AS          9783787    2nd type: AS long snout
 +
1967-1970      400        AS          97954      Except Ram Air, late
 +
1967-early '68 400        N            9773524   
 +
1968-1979      400        N            4813        Both "N" crank and standard
 +
w/2-3/4" flange, early
 +
 +
1968          350        N            9793573    Late
 +
1968-1970      350        N            9795479   
 +
1968          400 RA      AS          9794054    WU, WY, XT, XW engines
 +
1968-1969      6 cyl                    9790154    Firebird and Tempest; use pilot
 +
bearing P/N 3752487 for MT
 +
 +
Late 1968-1969 428        N            9782769     
 +
1969          303        FS          546270      Limited production
 +
1969-1974      400        N            97954      2-3/4" flange
 +
1969          400 RA IV  N            9795481    WH, WW, XN, XP engines, +0.001"
 +
1970          400 RA IV  N            9795481 
 +
1969          400 RA V    FS          545671      Limited production
 +
1970          366        FS                      Moldex forged, limited production
 +
1970-1979      350/400                  9773524    Non "N" with 2-3/4" flange
 +
1970-1976      455                      496453 
 +
1970-1976      455        N            9799103    Approx wt. 72 lbs. came both "N"
 +
and standard
 +
 +
1971-1974      350        N            4813 
 +
1971-1974      400        N            4813 
 +
1972          455 SD      FS                      Kellog forged, limited production
 +
1973-1974      455 SD      N            490164      W8, Y8, X8, Z8, ZJ, XD engines
 +
1973-1976      455        N            496453      Service replacement
 +
1975-early '76 350        N            496452      Thin counterweights
 +
1975-early '76 400        N            496414      Thin counterweights
 +
1975-1976      455        N            496415      Thin counterweights
 +
1975-1976      455        N            496453      Thin counterweights, late
 +
1976-1979      350        N            496452      Thin counterweights, late
 +
1976-1979      400        N            499864      Thin counterweights
 +
1977-1981      301        N            525887      End counterweights only
 +
1980-1981      265        N            525887      End counterweights only
 +
 +
NOTES:
 +
SD: Super Duty
 +
FSD: Forged steel
 +
AS: Armasteel
 +
N:Nodular
 +
RA: Ram Air
 +
MT: Manual transmission
 +
</pre>
 
===Pilot bearing===
 
===Pilot bearing===
 
The Pontiac uses a rolling element-type pilot bearing as opposed to a bushing.
 
The Pontiac uses a rolling element-type pilot bearing as opposed to a bushing.
  
[[File:BCA-7109.jpg|thumb|150px|BCA p/n 7109 pilot bearing]]Pilot bearing is BCA p/n 7109 (available from [http://www.summitracing.com/parts/BCA-7109/ Summit] and Ken's Speed and Machine, among others). The GM part number is 15533265. The dimensions are 1.3780" OD x 0.5906" ID x 0.3543" wide (35 mm OD x 15 mm ID x 9 mm wide). According to Ken's, the cheaper p/n 6202 bearing may be used, but the crank opening may need to be machined 2 mm deeper. The p/n 6202 is 35 mm OD x 15 mm ID x 11 mm wide. The 6202 is available with shields on both sides to keep dirt out.
+
[[File:BCA-7109.jpg|thumb|150px|BCA p/n 7109 pilot bearing]]Pilot bearing is BCA p/n 7109 (available from Summit and Ken's Speed and Machine, among others). The GM part number is 15533265. The dimensions are 1.3780" OD x 0.5906" ID x 0.3543" wide (35 mm OD x 15 mm ID x 9 mm wide). According to www.pontiacpower.org, the cheaper p/n 6202 bearing may be used, but the crank opening may need to be machined 2 mm deeper. The p/n 6202 is 35 mm OD x 15 mm ID x 11 mm wide. The 6202 is available with shields on both sides to keep dirt out.
  
 
The outside of the crank opening is staked with a chisel in at least two places to hold the bearing in place because the pilot bearing is a slip fit into crank recess.
 
The outside of the crank opening is staked with a chisel in at least two places to hold the bearing in place because the pilot bearing is a slip fit into crank recess.
<br><br>
+
<br style="clear:both"/>
  
 
==Ignition==
 
==Ignition==
Line 690: Line 791:
 
The same timing chain cover was used for both '64 and '65 and had just a simple pointer. These were cast with number '''9773371'''. The timing cover used on '66 and '67 employed a small timing scale marked -4-0-+6 and is otherwise identified as casting #'''9783130'''. The '68, '69 and '70 timing covers look very similar with timing marks of 0-6-12 degrees BTDC and accommodated the large diameter damper. The '68 timing cover casting number is '''9790347''' and uses the 8-bolt water pump. The '69-'70 timing cover casting number is '''9796346''' and uses the improved 11-bolt pump. For '71-up the timing cover timing tab is marked from 4 degrees ATDC to 12 degrees BTDC and is graduated all the way to 16 degrees BTDC. As compression ratios were lowered to 8:1 and less there became a need for increased initial advance. Casting number for this cover is '''482883'''. If you need to order a water pump the Federal Mogul part numbers are: '64-'68 is FP1388N, early '69 is FP1409N and late '69-on is FP1423.   
 
The same timing chain cover was used for both '64 and '65 and had just a simple pointer. These were cast with number '''9773371'''. The timing cover used on '66 and '67 employed a small timing scale marked -4-0-+6 and is otherwise identified as casting #'''9783130'''. The '68, '69 and '70 timing covers look very similar with timing marks of 0-6-12 degrees BTDC and accommodated the large diameter damper. The '68 timing cover casting number is '''9790347''' and uses the 8-bolt water pump. The '69-'70 timing cover casting number is '''9796346''' and uses the improved 11-bolt pump. For '71-up the timing cover timing tab is marked from 4 degrees ATDC to 12 degrees BTDC and is graduated all the way to 16 degrees BTDC. As compression ratios were lowered to 8:1 and less there became a need for increased initial advance. Casting number for this cover is '''482883'''. If you need to order a water pump the Federal Mogul part numbers are: '64-'68 is FP1388N, early '69 is FP1409N and late '69-on is FP1423.   
 
</blockquote>
 
</blockquote>
 +
 +
Pontiac Timing Cover Indentification (and Parts) from Butler Performance:
 +
http://butlerperformance.com/n-13416-pontiac-timing-cover-identification.html
 +
 
;[[Pontiac V8 engine #Parts interchangeability|Return to Parts interchangeability]]
 
;[[Pontiac V8 engine #Parts interchangeability|Return to Parts interchangeability]]
  
Line 695: Line 800:
 
===Water pump===
 
===Water pump===
 
There were two basic water pump designs used between 1964 and the end of production: an 8-bolt (up to '68-early '69) and an 11-bolt pump used after the 8-bolt pump.
 
There were two basic water pump designs used between 1964 and the end of production: an 8-bolt (up to '68-early '69) and an 11-bolt pump used after the 8-bolt pump.
 +
1969-1976 with Timing Pointer, 1977-up without Timing Pointer.
 +
 +
1955-1963: 4-bolt water pump
  
 
If the engine seems to be overheating, first be sure the temp gauge is reading correctly. Use a temporary mechanical gauge to check it. Then check the ignition timing to be sure it's not retarded.
 
If the engine seems to be overheating, first be sure the temp gauge is reading correctly. Use a temporary mechanical gauge to check it. Then check the ignition timing to be sure it's not retarded.
Line 706: Line 814:
 
[[File:Pont tubes.jpg|thumb|left|400px|Red arrow indicates rubber grommet inserted into sleeves used on 11-bolt water pump assembly]] <br style="clear:both"/>
 
[[File:Pont tubes.jpg|thumb|left|400px|Red arrow indicates rubber grommet inserted into sleeves used on 11-bolt water pump assembly]] <br style="clear:both"/>
  
==Parts interchangeability==
+
==Oil filter mount==
 +
In some cases the oil pressure gauge sender will hit the top of the filter. In that case, use an angled fitting as shown below. The threads are 1/4-18 NPT.
 +
 
 +
[[File:Pont oil housng11.jpg]]
 +
 
 +
==Parts interchangeability==  
 
Based on info from teufert.net and Ken's Speed & Machine.
 
Based on info from teufert.net and Ken's Speed & Machine.
 
<table border="2" cellpadding="2" cellspacing="0">
 
<table border="2" cellpadding="2" cellspacing="0">
 
<tr valign="center" align="middle"><td bgcolor="#DDDFFF"><font size="4"> <strong>PART:</strong></font></td>
 
<tr valign="center" align="middle"><td bgcolor="#DDDFFF"><font size="4"> <strong>PART:</strong></font></td>
<td bgcolor="#DDDFFF"><font size="4"><strong>INTERCHANGE YEARS:</strong> </font></td></tr>
+
<td bgcolor="#DDDFFF"><font size="4"><strong>INTERCHANGE YEARS/NOTES:</strong> </font></td></tr>
 
<tr valign="center" align="middle"><td ><strong>Block:</strong></td>
 
<tr valign="center" align="middle"><td ><strong>Block:</strong></td>
 
<td >1955,1956,1957,1959-'60,1961-'64 (full size V8), 1964-'69 (Tempest/Grand Prix V8), 1970-'79<br> '''Note:''' No block mount starter holes on pre-1964 blocks</td></tr>
 
<td >1955,1956,1957,1959-'60,1961-'64 (full size V8), 1964-'69 (Tempest/Grand Prix V8), 1970-'79<br> '''Note:''' No block mount starter holes on pre-1964 blocks</td></tr>
Line 720: Line 833:
 
<td >1955-'58, 1959-'60, 1961-'63, 1964, 1965-'71, 1972-'79<br>'''Note:''' Same pan can be used from 1964-on with proper rear pan seal</td></tr>
 
<td >1955-'58, 1959-'60, 1961-'63, 1964, 1965-'71, 1972-'79<br>'''Note:''' Same pan can be used from 1964-on with proper rear pan seal</td></tr>
 
<tr valign="center" align="middle"><td ><strong>Windage tray:</strong></td>
 
<tr valign="center" align="middle"><td ><strong>Windage tray:</strong></td>
     <td >1955-'58, 1959-'60, 1961-'62, 1963, 1964, 1965-'72<br>'''Note:''' After 1972 some blocks have no provision for windage tray mounting. #2 and #4 main cap holes are for windage tray mounting. Center main cap holes (#3 cap) for lower dipstick mounting only</td></tr>
+
     <td >1955-'58, 1959-'60, 1961-'62, 1963, 1964, 1965-'72<br>'''Note:''' #2 and #4 main cap holes are for windage tray mounting. After 1972 some blocks have no provision for windage tray mounting. Center main cap holes (#3 cap) are for lower dipstick bracket</td></tr>
 
<tr bgcolor="#F1F1F1" valign="center" align="middle"><td ><strong>Oil filter:</strong></td>
 
<tr bgcolor="#F1F1F1" valign="center" align="middle"><td ><strong>Oil filter:</strong></td>
 
     <td >1955-'59, 1960-'79</td></tr>
 
     <td >1955-'59, 1960-'79</td></tr>
Line 726: Line 839:
 
     <td >1955-'59, 1960-'62, 1963, 1964-'70 (straight), 1967-'79 (tilted)<br>'''Note:''' There are basically two different oil filter housings: Pre-1970 straight mount and the later angled housing mount. Also special adapter for a rearward facing oil filter housing to clear RA III and IV exhaust</td></tr>
 
     <td >1955-'59, 1960-'62, 1963, 1964-'70 (straight), 1967-'79 (tilted)<br>'''Note:''' There are basically two different oil filter housings: Pre-1970 straight mount and the later angled housing mount. Also special adapter for a rearward facing oil filter housing to clear RA III and IV exhaust</td></tr>
 
<tr bgcolor="#F1F1F1" valign="center" align="middle"><td ><strong>Crankshaft:</strong></td>
 
<tr bgcolor="#F1F1F1" valign="center" align="middle"><td ><strong>Crankshaft:</strong></td>
     <td >1955-'56, 1957-'58, 1959-'66 (3" main), 1967-'78 (3" main), 1962-'76 (3.25" main).<br> For all engines after 1964: 326, 350, 389 and 400 use the 3" mains. 421, 428 and 455 use the 3.25" mains.<br>More at [[Pontiac V8 engine #Cranks|Cranks]]</td></tr>
+
     <td >1955-'56, 1957-'58, 1959-'66 (3" main), 1967-'78 (3" main), 1962-'76 (3.25" main).<br> For all engines after 1964: 326, 350, 389 and 400 use the 3" mains. 421, 428 and 455 use the 3.25" mains.<br>{{!}}More at '''[[Pontiac V8 engine #Cranks|Cranks]]'''</td></tr>
 
<tr valign="center" align="middle"><td ><strong>Harmonic balancer:</strong></td>
 
<tr valign="center" align="middle"><td ><strong>Harmonic balancer:</strong></td>
 
     <td >1955-'62, 1963, 1964, 1965, 1966, 1967, 1968-'79<br> '''Note:''' Some 1977-up 400 and 301 use a crankshaft hub without a rubber torsional ring</td></tr>
 
     <td >1955-'62, 1963, 1964, 1965, 1966, 1967, 1968-'79<br> '''Note:''' Some 1977-up 400 and 301 use a crankshaft hub without a rubber torsional ring</td></tr>
<tr bgcolor="#F1F1F1" valign="center" align="middle"><td ><strong>Flywheel:</strong></td>
+
<tr bgcolor="#F1F1F1" valign="center" align="middle"><td ><strong>Flywheel/<br>Flexplate:</strong></td>
     <td >1955-'57, 1958-'60, 1961-'62, 1963, 1964-'79<br>'''Note:''' There are two different diameter flanges used on the 400 crank after 1975: 2-1/2" and 2-3/4".<br> All 350/389/400/428 and 455 with same flange will interchange.<br> Also watch the pilot ID on early pre-1964 389 Armasteel cranks when using an automatic</td></tr>
+
     <td >1955-'57, 1958-'60, 1961-'62, 1963, 1964-'79<br>'''Note:''' There are two different diameter flanges used on the 400 crank after 1975: 2-1/2" and 2-3/4".<br> All 350/389/400/428 and 455 with same flange will interchange.<br> Also watch the pilot ID on early pre-1964 389 Armasteel cranks when using an automatic<br>{{!}}More at '''[[Pontiac V8 engine#Modern GM transmission behind early Pontiac engine|Modern GM transmission behind early Pontiac engine]]'''</td></tr>
 
<tr valign="center" align="middle"><td ><strong>Connecting rods:</strong></td>
 
<tr valign="center" align="middle"><td ><strong>Connecting rods:</strong></td>
     <td >1955-'79<br> '''Note:''' Before 1962 forged rods were installed, but weaker then the later cast rod unless heat treated and prepped. Swapping to the earlier lighter forged rod requires re-balancing<br>More at [[Pontiac V8 engine#Rods|Rods]]</td></tr>
+
     <td >1955-'79<br> '''Note:''' Before 1962 forged rods were installed, but weaker then the later cast rod unless heat treated and prepped. Swapping to the earlier lighter forged rod requires re-balancing<br>{{!}}More at '''[[Pontiac V8 engine#Rods|Rods]]'''</td></tr>
 
<tr bgcolor="#F1F1F1" valign="center" align="middle"><td ><strong>Pistons:</strong></td>
 
<tr bgcolor="#F1F1F1" valign="center" align="middle"><td ><strong>Pistons:</strong></td>
     <td >Must match the bore, stroke, and head series<br> '''Note:''' 455 SD piston use SD rod unless the pin boss is internally milled. <br>More at [[Pontiac V8 engine #Pistons|Pistons]] </td></tr>
+
     <td >Must match the bore, stroke, and head series<br> '''Note:''' 455 SD piston use SD rod unless the pin boss is internally milled. <br>{{!}}More at '''[[Pontiac V8 engine #Pistons|Pistons]]'''</td></tr>
 
<tr valign="center" align="middle"><td ><strong>Wrist pins:</strong></td>
 
<tr valign="center" align="middle"><td ><strong>Wrist pins:</strong></td>
 
     <td >1955-'57, 1958-'62, 1963-'65, 1966-'79 Some SD pins are longer</td></tr>
 
     <td >1955-'57, 1958-'62, 1963-'65, 1966-'79 Some SD pins are longer</td></tr>
 
<tr bgcolor="#F1F1F1" valign="center" align="middle"><td ><strong>Heads:</strong></td>
 
<tr bgcolor="#F1F1F1" valign="center" align="middle"><td ><strong>Heads:</strong></td>
     <td >1955, 1956-'60, 1961-'66, 1967-'79<br> '''Note:''' Valve centers were widened in 1967 for larger valve diameters.<br>More at [[Pontiac V8 engine #Heads|Heads]]</td></tr>
+
     <td >1955, 1956-'60, 1961-'66, 1967-'79<br> '''Note:''' Valve centers were widened in 1967 for larger valve diameters.<br>{{!}}More at '''[[Pontiac V8 engine #Heads|Heads]]'''</td></tr>
 
<tr valign="center" align="middle"><td ><strong>Rocker arm:</strong></td>
 
<tr valign="center" align="middle"><td ><strong>Rocker arm:</strong></td>
 
     <td >1955, 1956-'60, 1961-'64, 1963 (421 HO)-'64 (GTO Tripower), 1965, 1966, 1967 (326 only), 1967-'79<br>'''Note:''' Ram Air IV engines used a 1.65 ratio, the pushrod holes were factory enlarged for this.<br> All other heads have to be modified to use 1.65 rocker arms</td></tr>
 
     <td >1955, 1956-'60, 1961-'64, 1963 (421 HO)-'64 (GTO Tripower), 1965, 1966, 1967 (326 only), 1967-'79<br>'''Note:''' Ram Air IV engines used a 1.65 ratio, the pushrod holes were factory enlarged for this.<br> All other heads have to be modified to use 1.65 rocker arms</td></tr>
Line 748: Line 861:
 
     <td >1955, 1956-'79</td></tr>
 
     <td >1955, 1956-'79</td></tr>
 
<tr valign="center" align="middle"><td ><strong>Camshaft:</strong></td>
 
<tr valign="center" align="middle"><td ><strong>Camshaft:</strong></td>
     <td >1955-'79 (except Ram Air V/455 Super Duty).<br>More at [[Pontiac V8 engine #Cams|Cams]]</td></tr>
+
     <td >1955-'79 (except Ram Air V/455 Super Duty).<br>{{!}}More at '''[[Pontiac V8 engine #Cams|Cams]]'''</td></tr>
 
<tr bgcolor="#F1F1F1" valign="center" align="middle"><td ><strong>Intake manifold:</strong></td>
 
<tr bgcolor="#F1F1F1" valign="center" align="middle"><td ><strong>Intake manifold:</strong></td>
     <td >1955, 1956, 1957-'58, 1959-'60, 1961-'62, 1963-'64, 1965-'71, 1972-'79<br>More at [[Pontiac V8 engine #Intakes|Intakes]] and [[Pontiac V8 engine #Heat cross over|Heat cross over]]<br></td></tr>
+
     <td >1955, 1956, 1957-'58, 1959-'60, 1961-'62, 1963-'64, 1965-'71, 1972-'79<br>{{!}}More at '''[[Pontiac V8 engine #Intakes|Intakes]]''' and '''[[Pontiac V8 engine #Heat cross over|Heat cross over]]'''<br></td></tr>
 
<tr valign="center" align="middle"><td ><strong>Exhaust manifolds:</strong></td>
 
<tr valign="center" align="middle"><td ><strong>Exhaust manifolds:</strong></td>
     <td >1955, 1956, 1957, 1958, 1959-'79 (D-port); 1968-'74 (round port)</td></tr>
+
     <td >1955, 1956, 1957, 1958, 1959-'79 (D-port); 1968-'74 (round port)<br> '''Note:''' While the manifolds physically fit the engine, the oil filter mount, steering box, and chassis configurations all need to be considered if using a non original manifold</td></tr>
 
<tr bgcolor="#F1F1F1" valign="center" align="middle"><td ><strong>Distributor:</strong></td>
 
<tr bgcolor="#F1F1F1" valign="center" align="middle"><td ><strong>Distributor:</strong></td>
 
     <td >1955-'79 (except Ram Air V/455 Super Duty)</td></tr>
 
     <td >1955-'79 (except Ram Air V/455 Super Duty)</td></tr>
Line 758: Line 871:
 
     <td >1955, 1956-'60, 1961-'64 (fullsize), 1964 (Tempest/Grand Prix)-'79</td></tr>
 
     <td >1955, 1956-'60, 1961-'64 (fullsize), 1964 (Tempest/Grand Prix)-'79</td></tr>
 
<tr bgcolor="#F1F1F1" valign="center" align="middle"><td ><strong>Timing Cover:</strong></td>
 
<tr bgcolor="#F1F1F1" valign="center" align="middle"><td ><strong>Timing Cover:</strong></td>
     <td >1955-'59, 1960, 1961-'62 (inc. Tempest "Trophy" 4), 1963, 1963 1/2-'65, 1966-'67, 1968, 1969-'79<br>The only difference in the 1968-up timing covers are the timing indicator markings.<br> Some late model 400 and 301 covers have a plastic bolt on tab.<br>More at [[Pontiac V8 engine #Timing covers|Timing covers]]</td></tr>
+
     <td >1955-'59, 1960, 1961-'62 (inc. Tempest "Trophy" 4), 1963, 1963 1/2-'65, 1966-'67, 1968, 1969-'79<br>The only difference in the 1968-up timing covers are the timing indicator markings.<br> Some late model 400 and 301 covers have a plastic bolt-on tab.<br>{{!}}More at '''[[Pontiac V8 engine #Timing covers|Timing covers]]'''</td></tr>
 
</table><br>
 
</table><br>
 +
 +
===Modern GM transmission behind early Pontiac engine===
 +
Due to the differences in the early crank flange and the lack of a drilled block mounted starter mount on the block, a TH 350/400, etc. tranny won't work behind an early (pre ~1964) engine. [http://www.wilcap.com/pontiac.html#287350 Wilcap] and [http://www.transmissionadapters.com/early_pontiac.htm Bendtsen's] sell kits that allows the later trannies to bolt up behind these early engines.
  
 
==Original build information==
 
==Original build information==
Line 778: Line 894:
 
*[http://www.highperformancepontiac.com/techarticles/index.html Various tech articles], from High Performance Pontiac
 
*[http://www.highperformancepontiac.com/techarticles/index.html Various tech articles], from High Performance Pontiac
 
*[http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=316668 Pontiac Hemi] HAMB thread
 
*[http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=316668 Pontiac Hemi] HAMB thread
 +
*Passenger-Side-Only Lifter Clatter (HotRod Magazine): http://butlerperformance.com/files/images/oil-galley-plug.jpg
  
 
[[File:7K3 Pont HEADS DRILLED FOR HEADERS 2.jpg|thumb|300px|left|7K3 heads drilled for headers. [http://www.spottsperformance.com/ Spots Performance] also sells "L" brackets for heads like these that don't have the pad.]]
 
[[File:7K3 Pont HEADS DRILLED FOR HEADERS 2.jpg|thumb|300px|left|7K3 heads drilled for headers. [http://www.spottsperformance.com/ Spots Performance] also sells "L" brackets for heads like these that don't have the pad.]]
Line 788: Line 905:
 
*[[Pontiac info and sites]]
 
*[[Pontiac info and sites]]
 
*[http://www.secondchancegarage.com/public/611.cfm 1946-'55 Pontiac engine specs] from secondchancegarage.com
 
*[http://www.secondchancegarage.com/public/611.cfm 1946-'55 Pontiac engine specs] from secondchancegarage.com
;Hotrodders Knowledge Base
+
*[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pontiac_V8_engine Pontiac V8 engine] Wikipedia page
*[http://www.hotrodders.com/kb/pontiac-engines Pontiac engines]
+
 
 
<br><br>
 
<br><br>
 
{{newarticle1}}
 
{{newarticle1}}

Latest revision as of 17:30, 27 September 2022

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