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| | These are various notes culled from threads on the Hotrodders Bulletin Board and related links. Needs to be organized and verified. | | These are various notes culled from threads on the Hotrodders Bulletin Board and related links. Needs to be organized and verified. |
| | | | |
| Line 38: |
Line 38: |
| | Len Stuart of Autobodystore.com recommends Picklex-20 followed by Zero Rust: http://www.autobodystore.com/new_page_1.htm | | Len Stuart of Autobodystore.com recommends Picklex-20 followed by Zero Rust: http://www.autobodystore.com/new_page_1.htm |
| | | | |
| − | from Eastwood: [http://www.eastwoodco.com/jump.jsp?itemID=852&itemType=CATEGORY&iMainCat=688 Rust encapsulator v. POR-15] | + | from Eastwood: [http://www.eastwoodco.com/jump.jsp?itemID=852 |
| − | | + | |
| − | Topcoat these products? Some may have a UV-resistant clearcoat to go with them -- research it.
| + | |
| − | | + | |
| − | ===The fiberglass resin patch trick===
| + | |
| − | One technique that has been recommended is to grind/clean the rust, tape the underside of the panel to be patched, and then fill the holes with fiberglass resin, then paint and undercoat. This trick is not a good idea -- when the body flexes, there will be cracks in the fiberglass pieces.
| + | |
| − | | + | |
| − | ===Surface rust removal technique===
| + | |
| − | Need 80-180 grit sandpaper, DA sander (or sand by hand), steel wool, naval jelly, squirt bottle w/warm soapy water, and paper towels.
| + | |
| − | | + | |
| − | #Get all heavy rust off with DA sander and 80-180 grit paper.
| + | |
| − | #Working in 1-2 square feet at a time, wearing rubber gloves, scrub with naval jelly and steel wool. Don't let the naval jelly dry, keep it wet, squirt with bottle.
| + | |
| − | #Rinse and re-apply naval jelly if necessary, to get to clean shiny metal.
| + | |
| − | #When finished with an area, wipe off excess naval jelly with paper towel, squirt on warm soapy water, and dry thoroughly. Then wipe down with lacquer thinner. Can then sand with 180 grit. After that, you can just use wax and grease remover, and then paint with epoxy primer.
| + | |
| − | | + | |
| − | Can use seam sealer afterwards on seams. SEM #39777.
| + | |
| − | | + | |
| − | ===Quick fix for exposed areas (dents, etc.)===
| + | |
| − | If a dent causes an area of bare metal to be exposed. To "hold" it so it won't rust until a paint job is ready to be done: gently bump out the dent, sand, rattle can primer, rattle can sealer.
| + | |
| − | | + | |
| − | | + | |
| − | ===How to seal insides of doors?===
| + | |
| − | Cut hole in panel? Spray rust killer with garden sprayer?
| + | |
| − | | + | |
| − | A mirror can be used to check areas for rust.
| + | |
| − | | + | |
| − | ===Examining rust===
| + | |
| − | After cleaning off rust of floor pans, wait until it's dark, and put a trouble light under your car. Pinholes in the sheet metal will show up very well in such a situation. Picture of this would be good.
| + | |
| − | | + | |
| − | Jab rusty areas with a screwdriver, scratch awl, or icepick, and see if they go through.
| + | |
| − | | + | |
| − | ===Patch panels===
| + | |
| − | Butt weld or lap weld?
| + | |
| − | | + | |
| − | Importance of weld-through primer? Weld-through primer is a zinc-rich coating that conducts current from a welder. It can provide protection on lap welds and inner weld seams. List a few commercially available weld-through primers here. 3M, U-Pol, etc.
| + | |
| − | | + | |
| − | ===Soda blasting?===
| + | |
| − | | + | |
| − | ===Preventing flash rust===
| + | |
| − | Especially, if you're not doing all of your bodywork at once.
| + | |
| − | Recommended: Eastwood metal wash,
| + | |
| − | | + | |
| − | | + | |
| − | ===Electronic Rust Inhibition===
| + | |
| − | *[http://www.counteractrust.com/ CounterAct Electronic Rust Protection]?
| + | |
| − | *[http://www.ruststopnorthamerica.com/electronic-rustproofing-rust-proofing.htm Rust Stop North America]
| + | |
| − | | + | |
| − | ===Penny trick for filling holes===
| + | |
| − | Grind down all the paint and rust from around the hole. Clamp a piece of copper to the other side (roof flashing, etc.). Then, fill in the hole with a MIG welder. When done, unclamp the copper -- it won't stick to the panel. Also, it absorbs the heat, so the panel won't warp as much.
| + | |
| − | | + | |
| − | Will brass work too?
| + | |
| − | | + | |
| − | What about drilling and patching pinholes?
| + | |
| − | | + | |
| − | ===Removing rust from chrome===
| + | |
| − | Use a mag wheel polish.
| + | |
| − | | + | |
| − | | + | |
| − | ===Electrolysis===
| + | |
| − | Removing rust with electrolysis -- research this: http://www.stovebolt.com/techtips/rust/electrolytic_derusting.htm .
| + | |
| − | | + | |
| − | ===Undercoatings===
| + | |
| − | Rubberized undercoatings?
| + | |
| − | | + | |
| − | *There are many different products and approaches for handling rust.
| + | |
| − | *Rust encapsulators are common in the hotrodding industry. Some people think that they won't get rid of a problem, and may make it worse. Oftentimes its is how you apply and prepare it.
| + | |
| − | *A common thought is that minor surface rust of body panels is treatable, but everything else must be cut out and replaced with new metal. However, this is not always true. But some seriously bad rust you will have too replace.
| + | |
| − | | + | |
| − | ===Plasma spray welding===
| + | |
| − | With plasma spray welding, metal wire is converted to sprayable form, and used to repair rust holes, fill panel joints, and blend patch panels. One example is the machine sold by [http://www.rustbustersllc.com Rustbusters].
| + | |
| − | | + | |
| − | | + | |
| − | ===Cleaning rusty tools===
| + | |
| − | Soak in a bucket with: parts cleaner or paint thinner.
| + | |
| − | | + | |
| − | Tumble them in a cement mixer with sand and oil.
| + | |
| − | | + | |
| − | ===How to clean engine water jackets or radiator of rust===
| + | |
| − | Flush with CLR, Kool Klean (can't find). Manufacturers of CLR say that it shouldn't be used in a radiator: http://www.jelmar.com/CLRbasic.asp .
| + | |
| − | | + | |
| − | When building an engine, to prevent rust: when done washing it and blowing it dry, oil it down, and store it in a plastic bag -- sealed (confirm this).
| + | |
| − | | + | |
| − | ===Surface rust===
| + | |
| − | Just sand with a DA, apply rust neutralizer, clean thoroughly, and prime.
| + | |
| − | | + | |
| − | ===Rust pitting===
| + | |
| − | After removing all surface rust, treat with metal prep, wash, dry, sand, prime, fill the pits with polyester putty (or Evercoat's Metal 2 Metal), then smooth and prime again.
| + | |
| − | | + | |
| − | A spot blaster is useful for this: silica as the medium. Grinding wheel, die grinder.
| + | |
| − | | + | |
| − | Or, repeatedly prime with a high build primer and block sand. You may have to prime/block several times to get the pitted area up to the same level as the surface around it.
| + | |
| − | | + | |
| − | Sprayable body filler, called "SlickSand"? From Evercoat? Like a "very high build primer"? Hard, but sands easy.
| + | |
| − | | + | |
| − | Let naval jelly sit on the pitted area overnight, if possible. Cover naval jelly with plastic wrap to keep it from drying out overnight.
| + | |
| − | | + | |
| − | ===Removing surface rust===
| + | |
| − | *How about using baking soda and water?
| + | |
| − | | + | |
| − | *To remove surface rust, use naval jelly (jelled phosphoric acid) and steel wool.
| + | |
| − | #Work in small areas, not larger than a square foot.
| + | |
| − | #Apply jelly with 000 steel wool, rub it in, and allow it to set for a couple of minutes. Don't let it dry.
| + | |
| − | #Rub again with steel wool. Repeat a few times, and then clean the area. Dry it immediately.
| + | |
| − | | + | |
| − | *To convert/neutralize rust
| + | |
| − | # Get everything off first that you can by sanding and wire brushing (wire brushing will get into the pits better)
| + | |
| − | # A rust converter/neutralizer containing phospheric acid or another type of acid shold be used
| + | |
| − | # Be careful of getting this stuff on your concrete floor as it will bubble and decompose it
| + | |
| − | # Follow the instructions on the bottle when you are done there should be a fine coating on the metal which will help prevent further rust from developing
| + | |
| − | # This stuff is hard on paintbrushes(eats away the brisles) and you must be very careful of your eyes. Also it will ruin paint so again use caution.
| + | |
| − | | + | |
| − | ===Gas tanks===
| + | |
| − | Put a handful of nuts and bolts in, chain, chainsaw blade, etc., and shake it around a bit to knock out the loose stuff. Not too aggressive -- you'll dent the tank. Then, clean with phosphoric acid. Pour it in, let it sit for up to an hour, then flush with water and baking soda to neutralize. Or, Eastwood has a kit for this: an acid to clean it, and then something to coat it with. However, some people say that the coating can clog up the fuel filter, or trash your OEM sending unit. The best way to do it is to take it out and get it re-tinned.
| + | |
| − | | + | |
| − | ===Removing rust===
| + | |
| − | Shop vac, putty knife, metal brush, wire wheel on grinder for loose stuff, or wire wheel that fits on a drill (not as good as grinder).
| + | |
| − | Phosphoric acid, muriatic acid, toilet bowl cleaner, naval jelly -- let it sit: 20 minutes, hours, overnight.
| + | |
| − | Coca-cola for rust removal?
| + | |
| − | After acid, flush with water and baking soda.
| + | |
| − | Lots of "rust neutralizers/metal etchers/floor etchers/metal conditioners" contain phosphoric acid. Turns the rust into a hard black substance.
| + | |
| − | Hit rust with a 60-grit sanding pad to make sure there is no rust left behind it.
| + | |
| − | | + | |
| − | *Start with as low as 36 grit, and finish with about 220.
| + | |
| − | *Scotch-brite pads and Comet/Ajax.
| + | |
| − | *3M clean-n-strip disc?
| + | |
| − | *"silver" POR-15? Has a filler in it for minor imperfections?
| + | |
| − | | + | |
| − | *Some people mentioned that professional body shops don't use POR-15 or similar rust "encapsulators" because:
| + | |
| − | **They would have to re-do too much of their work.
| + | |
| − | **Rust prevention products are primarily advertised in hobbyist mags, not in periodicals read by professionals in the paint and body industry.
| + | |
| − | **The lack of rust preventive products in non-hobbyist industries does appear suspect. For example, why don't ships at sea use POR-15?
| + | |
| − | **The major paint manufacturers like Sherwin Williams, PPG, and DuPont don't produce a POR-15 like product. This is thought to be because they couldn't possibly warranty such a product.
| + | |
| − | **The fact that POR-15 is not used by manufacturers is also important.
| + | |
| − | | + | |
| − | | + | |
| − | To clean frames: wash with water, wire brush, heat with torch, wire brush again, sand blast, blow with compressed air, then hit with rust converter.
| + | |
| − | | + | |
| − | ===Chemical dipping===
| + | |
| − | Complete acid dips are best, but expensive. By this method, the entire body is dipped into a tank.
| + | |
| − | | + | |
| − | Even high grade epoxies and finishes are not 100% impermeable to water and air.
| + | |
| − | | + | |
| − | ===Sand blasting with baking soda, for body panels?===
| + | |
| − | | + | |
| − | ===Evapo-Rust===
| + | |
| − | Interesting article here: http://www.stovebolt.com/techtips/rust/evaporust/index.html . Forum guy reviews evapo-rust. Disadvantages of acid: can't breathe it, must wash all parts thoroughly after using it, or the acid starts working again when it gets wet.
| + | |
| − | | + | |
| − | ===Storing body panels===
| + | |
| − | Use epoxy primer (AKA epoxy primer/sealer), it won't allow rust. Not the same as regular primer.
| + | |
| − | Wet-sand down to 400 grit, wash/dry, grind down rust to bare metal, apply body filler where needed, blow off, clean with prep-sol or similar cleaner, tape it up, and prime with epoxy primer.
| + | |
| − | | + | |
| − | Do epoxy primers need a topcoat?
| + | |
| − | | + | |
| − | Is epoxy primer the best coating for bare metal?
| + | |
| − | | + | |
| − | No, you can't get epoxy primer in a rattle can. It's a two-part mix, with a hardener that has to be added before you spray it.
| + | |
| − | | + | |
| − | | + | |
| − | ===Difference between rattle can primer and epoxy primer===
| + | |
| − | Rattle can primer is porous? Epoxy primer (2-part) is not?
| + | |
| − | | + | |
| − | ===Various commercial rust encapsulators and rust removers (need to be sorted)===
| + | |
| − | POR-15 is expensive. Are there other products that are just as good, but not so pricey? One problem with using "rust coating products" is that, for hobbyists, it's often best to stick with a single line of paint/finish products, from bare metal to clearcoat. Using most rust products means that you're outside of the product line for the rest of the finish. So, it may be physically incompatible (resulting in a poor paint job), or it may void the product warranty.
| + | |
| − | | + | |
| − | *[http://www.rustoleum.com/brand.asp?frm_brand_id=41&SBL=5 Rustoleum Tremclad]
| + | |
| − | *[http://www.rust-cure.com/ Rust Cure]
| + | |
| − | *[http://www.boeshield.com/ Boeshield]
| + | |
| − | *[http://www.eastwoodco.com/shopping/product/detailmain.jsp?itemID=16408&itemType=PRODUCT&iMainCat=373&iSubCat=374&iProductID=16408 Eastwood Rust Encapsulator]
| + | |
| − | *[http://www.eastwoodco.com/jump.jsp?itemID=1117&itemType=PRODUCT Eastwood Heavy-Duty Anti-Rust]
| + | |
| − | *[http://www.eastwoodco.com/jump.jsp?itemID=258&itemType=PRODUCT&path=1%2C2%2C458%2C467%2C473&KickerID=39&KICKER Eastwood Metal Wash]
| + | |
| − | *[http://www.eastwoodco.com/shopping/product/detailmain.jsp?itemID=15974&itemType=PRODUCT&iMainCat=373&iSubCat=374&iProductID=15974 Eastwood Rust Converter] (converts rust to inert black oxide)
| + | |
| − | *[http://www.eastwoodco.com/jump.jsp?itemID=1124&itemType=PRODUCT Oxisolv Rust Remover]
| + | |
| − | *[http://www.eastwoodco.com/jump.jsp?itemID=11122&itemType=PRODUCT Eastwood Rust Dissolver]
| + | |
| − | *Amchem Metalprep
| + | |
| − | *Transtar Amber
| + | |
| − | *[http://www.rustbeeter.com RustBeeter] (made from beets, maybe it's like molasses?)
| + | |
| − | *Duro Extend
| + | |
| − | *[http://solutions.3m.com/wps/portal/3M/en_US/3MAutomotive/Aftermarket/Products/Product-Catalog/?PC_7_0_53BC_root=GST1T4S9TCgv&PC_7_0_53BC_output=html&PC_7_0_53BC_gvel=6DTWTJQPBBgl&PC_7_0_53BC_vroot=GSLPLPKL4Xge&PC_7_0_53BC_node=GSQJ0YVJLSbe&PC_7_0_53BC_theme=en_US_aad_portal&PC_7_0_53BC_command=CustomizePageHandler Rust Fighter]
| + | |
| − | *DuPont 5717S Metal Conditioner
| + | |
| − | *[http://www.jasco-help.com/products/prod_mg.htm Jasco]
| + | |
| − | *[http://www.napasco.com/enrustreat.htm Mar-Hyde Rust Converter]
| + | |
| − | *Rust N-M-E
| + | |
| − | *[http://www.hammerite-automotive.com/ Hammerite]
| + | |
| − | *[http://www.eurekafluidfilm.com/ Fluid Film]
| + | |
| − | *Waxoyl
| + | |
| − | *[http://rustonic.com Rustonic]
| + | |
| − | *[http://duplicolor.com/products/rustfix.html Duplicolor Rust Fix]
| + | |
| − | *[http://www.therustdoctor.com/ Rust Doctor]
| + | |
| − | *[http://bluelightning.zoovy.com/product/RR32 Blue Lightning]
| + | |
| − | *Picklex-20
| + | |
| − | *[http://rust007.com/knockout.htm Rust Knockout]
| + | |
| − | *[http://www.napasco.com/enrustreat.htm Enrust]
| + | |
| − | *[http://rust007.com/destroyerhome.htm Rust Destroyer]
| + | |
| − | *Rust-Mort
| + | |
| − | *Rust-Check
| + | |
| − | *[http://www.evaporust.com/ Evapo-Rust Rust Remover]
| + | |
| − | *[http://www.corroless.com/ Corroless]
| + | |
| − | *[http://www.kleanstrip.com/special.htm Klean Strip Rust Converter]
| + | |
| − | *[http://www.zerorust.com/ Zero Rust] -- [http://www.zerorust.com/tech.htm tech page], [http://www.zerorust.com/faq.htm faq]. Rust cleaning product is "prep-step", and clearcoat is called "crystal coat"
| + | |
| − | *Rust Reformer
| + | |
| − | *[http://www.rustbullet.com Rust Bullet]
| + | |
| − | *[http://www.ospho.com/ Ospho]
| + | |
| − | *Oxisolve
| + | |
| − | *Rust-n-me
| + | |
| − | *DuPont Metal Conditioner
| + | |
| − | *PPG Metal Prep
| + | |
| − | *DuPont Vari-Prime
| + | |
| − | *Recommended body filler is All-Metal. Thought to be more moisture-resistant.
| + | |
| − | (are some rust "converters" really just muriatic acid?)
| + | |
| − | | + | |
| − | ===Rustproofing brake rotors===
| + | |
| − | Zinc dip, also Eastwood has some solutions?
| + | |
| − | | + | |
| − | ===Muriatic acid is another name for hydrochloric acid===
| + | |
| − | | + | |
| − | ===Patching frames===
| + | |
| − | Usually not worthwhile, unless it's a special or valuable frame. Too easy to replace, and too much potential structural damage. Has to be done perfectly. Can be replaced with steel of the same gauge as the original frame, and welded in to place.
| + | |
| − | | + | |
| − | Where is the rust on the frame? In a critical stress area? How bad is it?
| + | |
| − | | + | |
| − | ===Preventing engine rust===
| + | |
| − | Engine storage spray, or wipe down with [http://www.marvelmysteryoil.com/ Marvel Mystery Oil].
| + | |
| − | | + | |
| − | Cylinder walls with flash rust: marvel mystery oil, steel wool, etc. Pitted rusting will necessitate a rebuild.
| + | |
| − | | + | |
| − | ===Frame rust===
| + | |
| − | Sandblasting or dipping is best. Then, wire wheel is next-best. Can be professionally sandblasted and powder-coated for ~$250 at a good price.
| + | |
| − | | + | |
| − | For minor surface rusting, with mostly metal showing through, it's OK to just powder-coat it.
| + | |
| − | | + | |
| − | OR:
| + | |
| − | | + | |
| − | #blast/wire wheel
| + | |
| − | #phosphoric acid
| + | |
| − | #clean off acid with thinner
| + | |
| − | #etching primer
| + | |
| − | #epoxy primer
| + | |
| − | | + | |
| − | ===After removing rust===
| + | |
| − | Need to wash and prep surface, with a solvent like lacquer thinner or DuPont Prep-Sol.
| + | |
| − | | + | |
| − | ===Removing rust encapsulators from skin===
| + | |
| − | Soak in vegetable oil for 30 minutes, or use a solvent (is there a specific POR-15 solvent?).
| + | |
| − | | + | |
| − | ===Rusted window channels===
| + | |
| − | Bad news. Difficult to fabricate.
| + | |
| − | | + | |
| − | | + | |
| − | ===Quick spot repairs===
| + | |
| − | What if you have a small area of metal exposed? Can you use a spray can quick-fix? Or prep, shoot, clean with a gun?
| + | |
| − | | + | |
| − | | + | |
| − | ===Cleaning the inside of a boxed, open-ended frame===
| + | |
| − | Blow out all the dirt, etc. Then, attach a strong towel to some strong cord. Soak the towel with rust treatment chemical, and pull it through the frame.
| + | |
| − | | + | |
| − | ===Rivets, fiberglass patches, body adhesive glue===
| + | |
| − | For when you can't weld. Fiberglass patches are temporary solutions. Rivets are definitely not the way to go. What about body adhesive glue?
| + | |
| − | | + | |
| − | ===Step-by-step epoxy primer application to panels===
| + | |
| − | #strip, and sand with 80-grit sandpaper
| + | |
| − | #clean with wax and grease remover until a clean towel can be rubbed on it without discoloring
| + | |
| − | #spray 2 coats of epoxy, according to manufacturer's directions
| + | |
| − | #body filler can be applied next, although sometimes the epoxy will need to be scuffed or sanded (read instructions)
| + | |
| − | #when the filler work is done, scuff the whole panel with a red scotch-brite pad.
| + | |
| − | #then, apply two more coats of epoxy, followed by high-build primer.
| + | |
| − | | + | |
| − | ===Treating rusted body panels===
| + | |
| − | First, rust must be removed: chemicals, blasting, sanding, or cutting it out and replacing with fresh metal. If you can't completely remove it, you'll need to use a rust converter or a rust encapsulator.
| + | |
| − | | + | |
| − | With converters and encapsulator, be sure to treat rust from both sides of the panel.
| + | |
| − | | + | |
| − | *Why do older cars rust more quickly? Theories are:
| + | |
| − | **Cars are more aggressively coated these days. Galvanizing (explain).
| + | |
| − | **Steel used in cars is of a higher quality these days.
| + | |
| − | **More salt is used on roads these days.
| + | |
| − | | + | |
| − | ===Axle tube rust===
| + | |
| − | When rebuilding a rear end, the rust can be cleaned out with naval jelly/shoving rags down it with a broomstick.
| + | |
| − | | + | |
| − | | + | |
| − | ===How to treat rusty drip-rails?===
| + | |
| − | #sand blast
| + | |
| − | #wash with wax and grease remover
| + | |
| − | #spray with 2 coats of epoxy
| + | |
| − | #spray with seam sealer
| + | |
| − | | + | |
| − | | + | |
| − | How to apply seam sealer/cavity wax? Plus, more general info on cavity wax.
| + | |
| − | | + | |
| − | ===Flap disc for rust removal?===
| + | |
| − | | + | |
| − | ===Pitting===
| + | |
| − | Naval jelly and wire wheel, many iterations.
| + | |
| − | | + | |
| − | When done, sand with 80 grit, clean, and coat with epoxy primer.
| + | |
| − | | + | |
| − | | + | |
| − | ===Vinyl tops===
| + | |
| − | Rust is common in vinyl tops. The vinyl gets porous after a few years, and lets in moisture.
| + | |
| − | | + | |
| − | How to prevent?
| + | |
| − | | + | |
| − | | + | |
| − | ===Galvanization===
| + | |
| − | [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galvanization]
| + | |
| − | | + | |
| − | need more info on galvanization. done before primer.
| + | |
| − | | + | |
| − | ===Leaf spring===
| + | |
| − | Remove rust, then, ideally, paint them separately. Re-assemble with teflon strips.
| + | |
| − | | + | |
| − | | + | |
| − | ==="Oiling" your car===
| + | |
| − | In climates that are more prone to rust, cars are sometimes "oiled". Rocker panels, doors, and other body passages are drilled and sprayed inside with oil, used oil, or gelled oil substances. Entire frame and suspension are also oiled. Can be done yearly in very rust-prone climates.
| + | |
| − | | + | |
| − | ===Mag wheel cleaner as rust remover?===
| + | |
| − | | + | |
| − | ===Cosmoline===
| + | |
| − | What about [http://www.brownells.com/aspx/NS/store/ProductDetail.aspx?p=1134 Cosmoline] for short-term rust prevention (up to one year) on parts? Also, drilling holes in inaccessible parts (frames), and filling with Cosmoline?
| + | |
| − | | + | |
| − | ===Bulk notes===
| + | |
| − | *Phosphoric acid (naval jelly, etc.) reacts with rust (iron oxide), to form iron phosphate (the black stuff that naval jelly leaves behind). Neutralize with: baking soda.
| + | |
| − | *Muriatic acid (hydrochloric acid) is for cleaning aluminum, not steel. Don't use it on body metal! Causes hydrogen embrittlement.
| + | |
| − | *Don't ever use battery acid (sulfuric acid) to remove rust. Very dangerous to work with, and harms metal.
| + | |
| − | *To keep naval jelly wet, soak some fabric in water, and lay it on the naval jelly. Can work on an incline.
| + | |
| − | *What grit sandpaper to use when removing rust from body panels?
| + | |
| − | *Holes must be cut out, and new metal welded in.
| + | |
| − | *Using straight hydrochloric (same as muriatic) acid requires that it be properly neutralized (how to do this?), otherwise there is a risk of hydrogen embrittlement causing cracks in thinner areas of sheet metal.
| + | |
| − | *Don't sit in one spot too long with a wire brush -- it will warp the metal.
| + | |
| − | *The iron phosphate coating that's left behind by rust converter is a fine base for primer.
| + | |
| − | *To remove rust, wire brush, or wire wheel the area. Also: [http://solutions.3m.com/wps/portal/3M/en_US/Manufacturing/Industry/Product-Catalog/Online-Catalog/?PC_7_0_4UVL_root=GST1T4S9TCgv&PC_7_0_4UVL_output=html&PC_7_0_4UVL_gvel=H55CPWS904gl&PC_7_0_4UVL_vroot=81LC4NNTD4ge&PC_7_0_4UVL_node=RCM96XTX07be&PC_7_0_4UVL_theme=en_us_manufacturingindustry_portal&PC_7_0_4UVL_command=CustomizePageHandler 3M clean & strip disc], or [http://solutions.3m.com/wps/portal/3M/en_US/Marine/Home/Products/Catalog/?PC_7_0_4S4T_root=GST1T4S9TCgv&PC_7_0_4S4T_output=html&PC_7_0_4S4T_gvel=RJ5GMFSMV0gl&PC_7_0_4S4T_vroot=GS4JK4Y166ge&PC_7_0_4S4T_node=GSGKXWRKYVbe&PC_7_0_4S4T_theme=en_US_marineproducts_portal&PC_7_0_4S4T_command=AbcPageHandler 3M bristle disc]
| + | |
| − | *POR-15 shouldn't be used on parts that will see direct sunlight -- it's color will change (although it won't lose its anti-rust capabilities).
| + | |
| − | *POR-15 can't be applied over primer. Has to be done per instructions.
| + | |
| − | *POR-15 is largely considered a "duct tape fix" or a "git-er-done" solution. It may be OK for the home hobbyist, but it's not considered the "right way" or the "professional way" to handle rust.
| + | |
| − | *When using wire wheel on drill, when the wire bristles start to bend one way, reverse the drill and work in the other direction for a while.
| + | |
| − | *Brands: POR-15, Zero Rust, Eastwood Rust Encapsulator. These are NOT rust "converters", they don't alter rust, etc. There is a common misconseption that the ones listed are converters, but that is in fact false. They are a coating intended to seal out air and moisture.
| + | |
| − | *Another argument against rust "treatments" is that many of them require the surface to be lightly rusted first. "Inducing" rust seems wrong to people.
| + | |
| − | *Rust-protection products can either act as a coating, or as a sacrificial anode (explain).
| + | |
| − | *If POR-15 and similar products have a "lifetime warranty", explain how guarantees like that don't involve labor costs, losses, or other related costs.
| + | |
| − | *One recommendation is: after sandblasting, remove some more of the surface metal by sanding with sandpaper. This is done to remove the salt, sand, moisture, etc. from the surface.
| + | |
| − | *After preparing panels, coating them with epoxy primer is recommended.
| + | |
| − | *Phosphoric acid or muriatic acid are recommended as well.
| + | |
| − | *Rust forms so quickly that if you are sand blasting, media blasting, etc., the surface rust will begin to form before you finish the job.
| + | |
| − | *Molasses is thought to work, but takes a while. 1 part molasses to 10 parts water.
| + | |
| − | *To remove rust: Comet/Ajax with Scotch-Brites, and then muriatic acid with scotch-brites, and then rinse and wash with Comet/Ajax again to neutralize the acid.
| + | |
| − | *POR-15 is a three-step process: degreaser, then metal prep, then POR-15 paint. (verify this).
| + | |
| − | *What's "all-metal"? Same as all-metal prep?
| + | |
| − | | + | |
| − | Links to review: http://www.tfhrc.gov/pubrds/novdec98/laboratory.htm , http://www2.sherwin-williams.com/im/cs/cs-spring2003/feature-01.asp .
| + | |
| − | | + | |
| − | ==References==
| + | |
| − | *[http://www.hotrodders.com/forum/rust-what-acceptable-permanent-ways-get-rid-47303.html Acceptable ways to handle rust], ''Hotrodders Bulletin Board'', September 7, 2004.
| + | |
| − | *[http://hotrodders.com/forum/rust-pits-39.html Rust pits], ''Hotrodders Bulletin Board'', November 27, 2001.
| + | |
| − | *[http://hotrodders.com/forum/rustbusters-good-bad-40.html Rustbusters: good or bad?], ''Hotrodders Bulletin Board'', December 4, 2001.
| + | |
| − | *[http://hotrodders.com/forum/rust-70.html Rust], ''Hotrodders Bulletin Board'', January 26, 2002.
| + | |
| − | *[http://hotrodders.com/forum/rust-210.html Rust], ''Hotrodders Bulletin Board'', June 15, 2002.
| + | |
| − | *[http://hotrodders.com/forum/pitted-rust-280.html Pitted Rust], ''Hotrodders Bulletin Board'', July 26, 2002.
| + | |
| − | *[http://hotrodders.com/forum/removing-interior-rust-1664.html Removing that interior rust], ''Hotrodders Bulletin Board'', September 29, 2002.
| + | |
| − | *[http://www.eastwoodco.com/jump.jsp?itemID=1476&itemType=CATEGORY&iMainCat=688&iSubCat=1476 Treating rusted body panels] ''Eastwood Company''.
| + | |
| − | *[http://hotrodders.com/forum/how-do-i-address-rust-404.html How do I address rust?], ''Hotrodders Bulletin Board'', October 7, 2002.
| + | |
| − | *[http://hotrodders.com/forum/rust-spot-406.html Rust spot], ''Hotrodders Bulletin Board'', October 7, 2002.
| + | |
| − | *[http://hotrodders.com/forum/what-would-good-rust-proof-inside-new-panels-64093.html What would be good to rust proof the inside of new panels?], ''Hotrodders Bulletin Board'', June 11, 2005.
| + | |
| − | *[http://hotrodders.com/forum/completely-covered-surface-rust-help-458.html Completely covered with surface rust...help], ''Hotrodders Bulletin Board'', October 24, 2002.
| + | |
| − | *[http://hotrodders.com/forum/d-sanders-rust-461.html D/A sanders and rust], ''Hotrodders Bulletin Board'', October 25, 2002.
| + | |
| − | *[http://hotrodders.com/forum/chrome-wheels-rust-634.html Chrome wheels rust], ''Hotrodders Bulletin Board'', December 9, 2002.
| + | |
| − | *[http://hotrodders.com/forum/filling-up-holes-body-including-rust-holes-648.html Filling up holes in body, including rust holes], ''Hotrodders Bulletin Board'', December 12, 2002.
| + | |
| − | *[http://hotrodders.com/forum/surface-rust-791.html Surface rust], ''Hotrodders Bulletin Board'', January 12, 2003.
| + | |
| − | *[http://hotrodders.com/forum/rust-dimples-843.html Rust dimples], ''Hotrodders Bulletin Board'', January 20, 2003.
| + | |
| − | *[http://hotrodders.com/forum/some-rust-floor-pans-suggestions-877.html Some rust in the floor pans. Suggestions?], ''Hotrodders Bulletin Board'', January 26, 2003.
| + | |
| − | *[http://hotrodders.com/forum/what-rust-treatment-will-resist-welding-frame-892.html What rust treatment will resist welding -- frame?], ''Hotrodders Bulletin Board'', January 29, 2003.
| + | |
| − | *[http://hotrodders.com/forum/rust-treatment-982.html Rust treatment], ''Hotrodders Bulletin Board'', February 18, 2003.
| + | |
| − | *[http://hotrodders.com/forum/rust-1054.html Rust], ''Hotrodders Bulletin Board'', March 4, 2003.
| + | |
| − | *[http://hotrodders.com/forum/surface-rust-removal-1135.html Surface rust removal.], ''Hotrodders Bulletin Board'', March 20, 2003.
| + | |
| − | *[http://hotrodders.com/forum/rust-pitting-1170.html Rust pitting!], ''Hotrodders Bulletin Board'', March 26, 2003.
| + | |
| − | *[http://hotrodders.com/forum/first-hints-rust-1197.html First hints of rust], ''Hotrodders Bulletin Board'', April 1, 2003.
| + | |
| − | *[http://hotrodders.com/forum/getting-interior-rust-1719.html Getting at interior rust], ''Hotrodders Bulletin Board'', November 15, 2002.
| + | |
| − | *[http://hotrodders.com/forum/rusty-gas-tank-help-6055.html Rusting gas tank help], ''Hotrodders Bulletin Board'', January 25, 2003.
| + | |
| − | *[http://hotrodders.com/forum/rust-my-cylinders-7045.html Rust in my cylinders], ''Hotrodders Bulletin Board'', March 10, 2003.
| + | |
| − | *[http://hotrodders.com/forum/rust-sludge-rear-10753.html Rust and sludge in the rear], ''Hotrodders Bulletin Board'', May 18, 2003.
| + | |
| − | *[http://hotrodders.com/forum/rust-proofing-parts-14365.html Rust proofing parts], ''Hotrodders Bulletin Board'', October 25, 2002.
| + | |
| − | *[http://hotrodders.com/forum/snow-salt-causes-rust-15563.html Is it the snow or the salt that causes rust?], ''Hotrodders Bulletin Board'', February 21, 2003.
| + | |
| − | *[http://hotrodders.com/forum/evapo-rust-18521.html Evapo-Rust], ''Hotrodders Bulletin Board'', June 25, 2003.
| + | |
| − | *[http://hotrodders.com/forum/small-rust-patch-anything-else-i-can-do-19405.html Small rust patch -- anything else I can do?], ''Hotrodders Bulletin Board'', July 12, 2003.
| + | |
| − | *[http://hotrodders.com/forum/primer-wont-rust-27650.html Primer that won't rust...], ''Hotrodders Bulletin Board'', November 10, 2003.
| + | |
| − | *[http://hotrodders.com/forum/rust-pits-19686.html Rust pits], ''Hotrodders Bulletin Board'', July 17, 2003.
| + | |
| − | *[http://hotrodders.com/forum/phosphoric-acid-prevention-flash-surface-rust-19885.html Phosphoric acid + prevention of flash/surface rust], ''Hotrodders Bulletin Board'', July 20, 2003.
| + | |
| − | *[http://hotrodders.com/forum/week-later-rusting-through-zero-rust-20052.html Weeks later - rusting through the Zero Rust], ''Hotrodders Bulletin Board'', July 23, 2003.
| + | |
| − | *[http://hotrodders.com/forum/how-protect-rust-until-i-paint-21663.html How to protect from rust until I paint], ''Hotrodders Bulletin Board'', August 21, 2003.
| + | |
| − | *[http://hotrodders.com/forum/rustolem-24592.html Rustoleum], ''Hotrodders Bulletin Board'', September 29, 2003.
| + | |
| − | *[http://hotrodders.com/forum/body-work-rust-24876.html Body work (rust)], ''Hotrodders Bulletin Board'', October 2, 2003.
| + | |
| − | *[http://hotrodders.com/forum/best-blast-media-rust-removal-26861.html Best blast media for rust removal], ''Hotrodders Bulletin Board'', October 29, 2003.
| + | |
| − | *[http://hotrodders.com/forum/zero-rust-28325.html Zero Rust], ''Hotrodders Bulletin Board'', November 20, 2003.
| + | |
| − | *[http://hotrodders.com/forum/frame-rust-prevention-35589.html Frame rust prevention], ''Hotrodders Bulletin Board'', March 8, 2004.
| + | |
| − | *[http://hotrodders.com/forum/removing-sunbaked-suface-rust-before-priming-35757.html Remove sunbaked surface rust before priming], ''Hotrodders Bulletin Board'', March 10, 2004.
| + | |
| − | *[http://hotrodders.com/forum/rusted-39-ford-frame-36408.html Rusted '39 Ford frame], ''Hotrodders Bulletin Board'', March 21, 2004.
| + | |
| − | *[http://hotrodders.com/forum/welding-rust-spots-floor-38798.html Welding rust spots in floor], ''Hotrodders Bulletin Board'', May 3, 2004.
| + | |
| − | *[http://hotrodders.com/forum/galvanizing-frame-567.html Galvanizing a frame], ''Hotrodders Bulletin Board'', November 19, 2002.
| + | |
| − | *[http://hotrodders.com/forum/gas-tank-rust-45806.html Gas tank rust], ''Hotrodders Bulletin Board'', August 17, 2004.
| + | |
| − | *[http://hotrodders.com/forum/best-rust-inhibitor-40799.html Best rust inhibitor], ''Hotrodders Bulletin Board'', June 4, 2004.
| + | |
| − | *[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naval_Jelly Naval Jelly], ''Wikipedia'', retrieved April 24, 2007.
| + | |
| − | *[http://hotrodders.com/forum/rust-coat-primer-52865.html Rust-coat primer], ''Hotrodders Bulletin Board'', November 27, 2004.
| + | |
| − | *[http://hotrodders.com/forum/chassis-rust-repair-54190.html Chassis rust repair], ''Hotrodders Bulletin Board'', December 15, 2004.
| + | |
| − | *[http://hotrodders.com/forum/internal-rust-randy-ferguson-57263.html Internal rust], ''Hotrodders Bulletin Board'', February 1, 2005.
| + | |
| − | *[http://hotrodders.com/forum/getting-rust-out-nooks-crannies-60460.html Getting rust out of nooks and crannies], ''Hotrodders Bulletin Board'', March 27, 2005.
| + | |
| − | *[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen_embrittlement Hydrogen embrittlement], ''Wikipedia'', retrieved April 24, 2007.
| + | |
| − | *[http://hotrodders.com/forum/new-motor-rust-cylinder-walls-59015.html New motor, rust on cylinder walls], ''Hotrodders Bulletin Board'', March 2, 2005.
| + | |
| − | *[http://hotrodders.com/forum/secrets-surface-rust-removal-revealed-55679.html Secrets of surface rust removal revealed], ''Hotrodders Bulletin Board'', January 8, 2005.
| + | |
| − | *[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrochloric_acid Hydrochloric acid], ''Wikipedia'', retrieved April 24, 2007.
| + | |
| − | *[http://hotrodders.com/forum/newbie-question-rust-problems-61680.html Newbie question, and rust problems], ''Hotrodders Bulletin Board'', April 21, 2005.
| + | |
| − | *[http://hotrodders.com/forum/removing-rust-inside-frames-64002.html Removing rust on the inside of frames], ''Hotrodders Bulletin Board'', June 9, 2005.
| + | |
| − | *[http://hotrodders.com/forum/rust-creeping-seam-what-do-do-64202.html Rust creeping from seam, what to do?], ''Hotrodders Bulletin Board'', June 13, 2005.
| + | |
| − | *[http://hotrodders.com/forum/rust-removal-trick-maybe-64839.html Rust removal trick], ''Hotrodders Bulletin Board'', June 26, 2005.
| + | |
| − | *[http://hotrodders.com/forum/gettin-old-rusty-spring-back-prime-shape-65335.html Getting an old rusty spring back to prime shape], ''Hotrodders Bulletin Board'', July 6, 2005.
| + | |
| − | *[http://hotrodders.com/forum/rust-around-vinyl-top-66610.html Rust around the vinyl top], ''Hotrodders Bulletin Board'', July 24, 2005.
| + | |
| − | *[http://hotrodders.com/forum/cure-rusty-tank-67703.html A cure for rusty tank], ''Hotrodders Bulletin Board'', August 8, 2005.
| + | |
| − | *[http://hotrodders.com/forum/cleaning-old-rusty-tools-68221.html Cleaning old rusty tools], ''Hotrodders Bulletin Board'', August 15, 2005.
| + | |
| − | *[http://hotrodders.com/forum/rust-proofing-oil-72414.html Rust proofing with oil], ''Hotrodders Bulletin Board'', October 19, 2005.
| + | |
| − | *[http://hotrodders.com/forum/new-have-question-about-panel-rust-repair-76001.html Question about panel rust repair], ''Hotrodders Bulletin Board'', December 12, 2005.
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